Oh yeah, It's the medias fault. It's always the medias fault! And the Democrats, And god knows who else! But never theirs, Heavens no!!!

Most of you fail to even realize the $700 billion bailout was put in place by Bush, and it was necessary, get over it. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Bush was spending more than that a year on misguided wars. Beyond all of that, the whole $700 billion was never even used, only some of it. Even further beyond that when all the money that has been paid back by those companies you all love to hate, the total amount that is a cost to all of us taxpayers is actually around $30 billion and dropping. That's a drop in the bucket for our country, and it saved millions of jobs!!!! WHATS THE PROBLEM!!!

Everyone wants to say it hasn't created any jobs, which is absolutely false to begin with, but furthermore the real point of it was to keep jobs from disappearing, not so much creating new ones. The country was in dire straits, think about how bad it was at one point, now think about losing millions of more jobs at that point. You people don't realize where we would be without it.

As far as bailing out the auto industry, it is the same as the regular bailout. 1. It worked. 2. Most of the money has been paid back. 3. The companies and jobs are still here. 4. The car companies are starting to reopen plants and jobs now.

So far the President has done a pretty good god darn job, yet everyone wants to jump down his throat because they don't even know the facts. Look, it's the biggest recession since the great depression, and it wasn't even his fault what so ever!!!! These things take time and people need to wake up and smell the coffee. You don't comeback from something that catastrophic in 2 years, you just don't.

As far as healthcare, lets face it the system was screwed. From charging people $1,000s a month for individual coverage do denying pregnant women, and abused women, because of preexisting conditions. Furthermore, no one even knows how much it is going to cost, so stop the bellyaching before you even know how you are going to be affected. If taxes are good for anything, taking care of your fellow Americans health seems to be one of the best causes too me?!?!? Maybe I'm just too darn liberal, seems that caring for your fellow Americans is all of a sudden a liberal thing to do. We are one of the worst industrialized countries in the world in the ranks of healthcare, yet you people don't want anyone to change anything. It isn't going to be perfect, but at least someone finally took a step towards something, they can always readjust things along the way.

You poor tea partiers just don't realize who is backing your whole movement. It is huge corporations with their own agendas. Any Tea Party member out there. Please name for us the 3 largest contributor's to your cause. Here's a hint, you can't! Because all of the money is hidden.

lies

leanderm

What an intellectual statement. What exactly are lies? Or don't you know?

The actual amount is closer to 2 trillion and banks all over the world were bailed out with our money. Banks that our government refuses to identify. Reagan de-regulated and the Dems took advantage. Bush agreed with the Dems to bail out the banks because he had no choice when the Dems refused to see the problem they were creating: Loans to "anyone who was breathing". Barney and Dodd were the main culprits but there were others on both sides of the aisle who looked the other way. Bush wasted billions and American lives on 2 wars and started to bankrupt the country, the Dems finished the job. There is culpability on both parties. Lets start fresh on 11/2.

Of course there is blame on both sides, there always is. The problem is too many people basing their beliefs on falsehoods. Bush didn't have a choice?!?!?! WHAT! He was practically out of office by that time, he could have just sat there and did nothing if he wanted to. FACT IS, he knew it needed to be done as well. Furthermore it was Hank Paulson, who was put in place by Bush, who was just throwing money anywhere and not even accounting for it. You try to write as though your in the middle, but basically still try to blame everything on the Democrats. Everyone played their part, yes, but Bush didn't have to do anything he didn't want to.

Every independent economist in the world agrees that the bailout was the right thing to do, and here's a newsflash for everyone, they know a heck of a lot more about this stuff than we do. The main fact I was stating is that: 1. The bailout was necessary to prevent a total collapse. 2. It worked!. 3. Most of the money has either already been paid back or is in the process of being paid back. So whats the problem?!?!?

Start fresh with what?

Your point of banks across the world being bailed out just proves what a dire situation, the WORLD, not just our country was in. Actions had to be taken, and as with any crisis, decisions in those times are not going to be perfect, but in the end they worked and things stabilized. People are just going to have to accept that it is going to be a long process, that's pretty much how a recession or depression happens, it appears to come all at once, and then you spend a few years digging yourself out of it. No one said it was going to be fun or easy, but to base the upcoming elections on the fact that unemployment is still high is not logical, the republicans taking over is not going to change that. Saying the bailout is another reason is even more nonsense. If there was no bailout we would be looking at 20% unemployment. And God forbid our country try to provide better healthcare for it's people, you socialist pig America, how dare you! Every top ranked healthcare program in the world is controlled by that country's government and not the big business insurance companies.

Do you know that most European countries REQUIRE all companies to give EVERY worker close to a whole month of vacation time off every year. What's even more crazy? The companies like the rule and don't want to change it, because they know it makes their workers happier and more productive. What an insane idea huh? Just another case of government controlling and oppressing their people I guess. The government has to be involved in our lives to keep order. There has to be taxes on things to pay for all of our lovely American creature comforts. Everyone wants everything but doesn't want to pay for anything. "I want these roads in my town fixed up" BUT "You better not raise my taxes (or should I say end my tax CUT) or I will vote you out, because that tax cut is saving me $82 a year.... or uhh $1.57 per check, I need that!)

Jason. The corporations also back the environmental groups and every "group" out there. Natural gas backs the Sierra Club. I suspect that Greenpeace is also a corporate front.

Intellectual- I back the Tea Party and I do know the meaning of Marxism and Socialism. I know that the American economic system is a hybrid of Socialistic and Capitalistic systems of thought.

I do know that the Representatives that we send to DC are there to carve the tax pie into pieces that are returned to the State and Local organizations for meeting the needs of the citizens in that area.

The thing is that corporations have taken a look at the unending tax pie and overrisked their assets (basically monies entrusted to them) expecting the government to bail them out as they were bailed out during the Savings and Loan disaster of the 80s (a terrible mistake by Ronald Reagan).

The banking system has become our new welfare queens who know enough about the system to exploit it. They will allow the system to breakdown and expect the taxpayer to be burdened with higher taxes in order to strengthen the dollar should it become too weak. The corporations also expect that public works projects will be cut and corporations will be "needed" to prop up the State governments.

The corporations are also in the State and local governments protecting their interests and exploiting their systems in order to gain from the tax pie created by the State governments.

McB-773

I think he means start "fresh" with the same old ideas that got us into this mess. Or possibly, start "fresh" with the Tea Party, who even themselves don't realize they are funded by all the big insurance companies and banks that want to make things business as usual again. I mean that tactic is like 3 years old, so uhhh I guess it's kind of fresh??!?

Ozzi,

I respect your opinions, but don't agree. If the proper regulations were left in control the banks would never have been able to get themselves in too deep. Now I hated bailing out huge companies as much as you did, but the fact remains, it just had to be done. There just isn't a way around it. Everyone just wants to yell, "You should have just let them fail". Well unfortunately, in the middle of an economic crisis, you can't just let the biggest companies, who get this now, supply the most jobs in our country, just go out of business all at once. What would that have accomplished?

You seem like a pretty smart guy, so I want to ask you. All economists agree that it was the correct thing to do, why was it not? Other than the fact that you hated bailing out companies that screwed it up in the first place. Why was it the wrong thing to do?

And yes, I know big companies do their "corporate responsibility" work of trying to look good in the public eye by backing environmental things. I am sure that Exxon donates millions every year to environmental causes, but the problem is when they go down to Washington, then what are they donating to???? Trust me, it isn't environmental issues, and if you think it is, your more naive and lost than your original post would have had me thought otherwise.

Also Ozzi,

Since you are a Tea Party backer, maybe you can answer the question that no Tea Party candidate will. the Tea Party wants to cut taxes and pull back the government, right. So do that, things that people like have to be cut. What is the Tea Party going to cut out that will save us so much money?

Well this should be interesting.....the media has NOT been fair with the Tea Party...so I expect nothing good from them. That's part of what got us into this mess in the first place. The Media should JUST report the news- NOT influence.....but I'm not holding my breath.

I do want to actually thank the Tea Party for something if I may.

The Democrats suck at rallying their voters, it's just fact. Republicans are way more effective at both rallying people, and also flat out lying to cause anger towards the other party, and it works.

So I want to thank the Tea Party for 2 things.

1. Thank you for making a lot of Democrats so angry that they will actually go out and vote this year when otherwise, lets face it, a lot of them would have just stayed home and let whatever happens happen.

2. Being so so so far to the right that it has caused fighting within the Republicans ranks and has Republicans, like in Alaska who are going to siphon votes from the Tea Party and vice versa, just like the Green party has done to Democrats for so long.

Historically in the first mid term after a new president, the opposite party of the president always wins big, thats just a plain old fact. So we as Democrats were already prepared to lose seats, but the Tea Party is truly making it a little easier to keep some. Let's face it, the Democrats stood a good chance of losing DE to a Republican, then in jumps O'Donnel and that race is basically sealed with her behind like 20%. So thank you Tea Party Express!

Jason, "So what’s the problem?!?!?" What are you? Insane? You really don't see a problem with 1 million foreclosures? You don't see a problem with a families biggest investment, their house, devaluating to 50% of what it was? You don't see a problem with baby boomers who depended on the value of their houses for their biggest part of retirement and now having to keep working until they die? You don't see a problem with our children and our grand children having to live with the debt we created? You don't have a problem with double digit unemployment? And now they want to bring inflation into the equation. I guess if you can't see the problem, give me some of whatever your taking.

How much money goes to entitlement programs that are misused, mishandled & shamelessly racist? How many beaurocratic organizations exist in name only, performing functions that are already handled by other organizations? Are you aware of how many policing organizations there are, like federal police, capitol police etc.? The government exists to fulfill the government under the guise of helping the citizens. When some small good is done the airwaves vibrate with the goodness and are strangely quiet the rest of the time, but they all get money from taxpayers.

As to fox news and Obama, with the exception of fox news, NOTHING negative is said about Obama. Nada. ALL other media kiss his butt continuously, fawn at his feet and tacitly ignore or refuse to ask serious and relevent questions. No one has asked Obama about his campaign contributions which he very conveniently refused to disclose. It is very one-sided and progressive with ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC and all the others. The ONLY one asking questions of Obama is Fox. As to the backup videos, Fox does a lot more of that than the others. Demonizing the tea party is the order of the day with the progressive media, and that is done while ignoring or hiding truly germane information about what is really going on.

Christopher Coates' testimony about racism and voter fraud in the DOJ has been ignored by the mainstream media. Also not covered in the news is the trial against AZ where the DOJ has allowed foreign countries (Mexico, Guatemala, etc.) to weigh in on what is not supposed to be an international issue, namely the invasion of illegal immigrants into a soverign country.

What is really at issue here is the progressive desire to globalize the US and diminish the value of the individual over the 'good' of the collective. This is communism ideological thinking and naive since without the US there really is no global initiative. China and India hope to become soverign nations and that's all well and good except for the tiny little notion in globalism theory that no nation is soverign and all are equal. Can't have it both ways but no one on the progressive side seems to think beyond the next five minutes

BTW. I'm an Independent from Ct. I voted for Dodd (sorry all) and I'm leaning towards Blumenthal for senate on 11/2 but I'm not 100% sure yet.

Bernie,

The reference to "whats the problem" is to what is the problem with the President. You my friend are the one smoking something. The whole point is that this wasn't caused by the President, it was caused by the previous 8 years, and even some by Clinton. So don't take out all the countries current misfortunes on the man trying to fix them, take it out on the people that caused it. Or are you too dimwitted to realize that just because someone is the current president, doesn't mean they are the cause of the problems. He is taking all the steps that people much smarter than me, and certainly a heck of a lot smarter than you are deeming to be the right steps. What would you have done in the middle of a worldwide economic disaster. Come on now Bernie, lay it out for me.

You complain about how many people are out of jobs and in foreclosure but your supporting candidates that don't give a hoot about them, they want to cut their benefits and cause even more unemployment. YOU ARE A WALKING CONTRADICTION.

mygirl

Don't pretend that you actually watch other news programs. I have watched plenty of programs on those channels say bad things about the president. Heck "Morning Joe" is basically a complete republican show and it's on MSNBC...gasp!!! I have also watched Rachel Maddow blast the president for not fighting for gay rights like he had promised. So don't try to tell me they don't say anything negative, because you obviously don't even watch. Just another typical brain washed liar!

Jason

Your reply is a typical Lib Dem. If you can't win an argument with facts, lie. The problem with this president is he is clueless. Even those around him are abandoning him. It was a nice story but it's become a huge mistake. He can't keep hiding behind Bush. There was a Democratic senate & house and nothing to stem this economic tide was done. A similar occurrence happened in the 90's where the government bailed out the banks by buying bad loans. The difference was in the 90s the government kept the houses they bought. The mistake here was we not only gave money to the banks, we let them keep the houses as well and now the banks have both the money and the assets and are not giving anything back. Banks are evil. Should have been Hilary!

Jason, I have to get back to work. It was nice talking to you. Don't drink the cool aid like I used to.

Benie,

Typical Republican, totally disregard my questions to you, and attack me, thus trying to make people forget about the questions in the first place. What did I lie about??? Did President Obama cause the economic situation??? NO! Does EVERY independent economist in the world agree he took the right steps??? YES!!!

Jason seems to have all the answers, So why bother looking up all the same crap thats been stated all along. My suggestion is we just see what happens on Nov 2nd. I am surprised none of the liberals made mention of how old and white they all looked and a pass on the shotgun too. The fear must be devastating at this point. Jason please there is really no responsibility of any one to answer your questions. For one major reason, you already have all the right answers....I mean Left answers. Football is way more interesting.

The true fact is, our so called socialists countries have become richer than your's and we do enjoy a better quality of life! Your right wingers are either very ignorant or lying to you !

Table 1: Top 10 countries with the highest average wealth per adult Switzerland372,69260%

Norway326,530195%

Australia320,909211%

Singapore255,488127%

France255,156146%

Sweden243,50693%

US236,21323%

Luxembourg234,97227%

UK229,94041%

Italy226,42389

CountryAverage wealth per adult 2010 (USD)% change 2010 versus 2000

By Allison Linn, senior business writer

They work less, they look great and now it turns out that the French – and citizens of six other countries - are richer than us, too.

The average wealth per American adult hit $236,213 in 2010, according to Credit Suisse. That's a 23 percent increase over a decade ago, but leaves us far behind No. 1 Switzerland, which surged 60 percent over the past decade to an average of $372,692 per adult.

The U.S., which ranked No. 2 in average wealth behind Switzerland a decade ago, has been surpassed since then by rapidly growing Norway, Australia, Singapore, France and Sweden, according to Credit Suisse.

Credit Suisse defined wealth as all assets, including real estate, minus debt such as bank loans.

Is all that wine and joie de vivre actually making the French more productive? Maybe so – as Business Insider points out, renowned workhorses Germany and Japan don't even crack the top 10.

Thanks to Econompic Data, which created this graphic based on data from

See business section on msn today

Maybe my perceptions are wrong...but tea party participants or supporters...at least the vocal ones seem to be the 2 W's. White and with some wealth. My definition of "with some wealth" means your tax returns do not put you below the poverty line. I'm sure there are some who are not part of the 2 W's, but when pictures are published and broadcast...that is what I see. You can call me racist because in my short life span, I have never met anyone who is without some prejudice. And while there are several times when standing up for my rights have led people to tell me to go back to my own country...which is the USA, by the way...I have to say I have never said that to anyone because I know the wonderful diversity of our beloved country. More than country standing by wealth, I think we should look at infant mortality...and then be horrified at where we fall in that listing.

Its funny how Tea Partiers think Obama wants a socialist society - to have the feds "own" all the major industries. Actually, Obama wants the free market to have some rules to make sure it no longer exploits individuals in the name of greed with impunity, like under Bushy's free market model. The Tea Partiers would rather offer up their back ends to corporations? That's what the "Founding Fathers" wanted?

Reagan economics 101 and the template was available. Obama stated he wished to collapse the economy and "the one" just might get-r-done. Then you liberals can throw your hands up in glee and transform this country "land of the free" into that of Europe, a failing piece of landscape or that of Greece which is more likely. Then all of you anti American bashers, hateful engineers of America's downfall can claim success. Congratulations.

"Soon we'll all be dancing!!" "Obama should be apologizing to 15Million out of work!" From THE Architect of Republican Criminality Comes the admission of Her OWN Guilt. The Bushy Shrubber Reign PUT these 25Million Americans out of Work SarinGas!! And NOW, Palin is telling US to bend over so The Republican TeaBags can Legislate "The Pledge To America" WHICH WILL Increase US Unemployment to 30% while these POLITICAL CRIMINALS Live In THE LAP OF LUXURY.... The "Tea Party" NOW is IT?? Ahhhh....The craftiness of the Republican Party, a collection of the world's running sores, Pedaphiles, Perverts, sociopaths, war mongers, crooks, criminals and con artist snake oil salesmen, BOTH In Congress and the Boardrooms, with ONE THING IN MIND.....I Want ALL The Money!!!...ALL THE MONEY!!!! And They don't care HOW They Get It!. Let the ends justify the means!!..... the Republican Party has earned such a Demonic, Seedy and Totally Disgusting reputation! SO! Do what others have done....Change your name and approach!!!

The "Tea Party" invites The Hurting Class and the Greedy Haves to their ranks with a promise of "change" from "Commie/Socialist" Prez O. Well Surprise VOTERS!! You vote the "Tea Party" INTO POWER, which is the MILITARIST IRON FIST of the Republican Party, and They ARE GOING TO Give US A Taste of REAL HURT, BIG BIG TIME!!!!! Like: Unending Wars in Afghan, Iraq, Iran, Somailia, Yemen, Pakistan and anywheres the Rich Republican Industrialists can Ply their Trade and Weapons For HUGE PROFIT While the Blood of America's Youth soaks into the soil. How About NO Healthcare AT ALL !!!! That's right!!!, You Are Sick??? Die QUICK!!!! How About: Minimum Wage reset at $1.00P/Hr with burger flipping jobs for all!!! How About: Hey!, Oh My God!!!, What happened to my Social Security Check, I am OLD and MY LIFE Depends on those Funds??!! GONE! Republican Teabags controlled congress and "Phased Out" Social Security for the Republican industrialists profiteering and their "war effort". The Republican Rich are tucking away Your Social Security Money into their TAXFREE Pockets!!! They Are CRIMINALS!! Remember?? And YOU ARE Sh@fted Voter!! How About Republican Wall Street Getting control of ALL Banking in America, through leveraging and buy outs and YOU are watching them TAKE Your Money out of Your accounts VIA Phony trumped up "Fees"! THESE Are Just a Few of what's in store for US if the REPUBLICAN "Tea Party" gets hold of America's Reins of Power with NO Controls......Remember Their Boy Bushy!!!!!!!, His father's IDIOT SON, Who DE-REUGULATED ALL Controls on Corporations during his SHRUBBER REIGN 2001 - 2008?? Just look at The CATASTROPHE Bushy and his Republican Party PUT ON US!!!!! Just what do you think is going to happen if the Republican TeaBaggers are given the Power to make and carryout laws Again! They're not going to vote more money into Social Security Retirement Funds for the old and infirm, That's for sure!!. They'll dream up some euthanasia scheme to get rid of the old folks so they can stick their money into their own pockets! Better Dead than Fed!! Be Careful People, Be Very Very Careful what you vote for! The Republican Tea Club sociopaths are Mercilessly Ruthless Criminals with NO regard for America or Her People.

WHERE ARE THE VOICES OF MIDDLE INCOME DEMOCRATS?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I am a working, married mother of two very young children. These Tea-Baggers are so selfish and egotistical and the media is eating it up with a spoon. I don't hear any voices from people like me who work very hard and try to balance family, school, and personal lives.

"Obama-Care" my new favorite phase is a term coined by the health insurance companies to demonize offering insurance to all. How can ANYONE be against this. I have a special needs child and his bills are over 10k every year.

Yes, I am Angry. Yes I am frustrated. But voting for these selfish "conservatives" is counter productive. They are only conservative when it comes to gun laws. Never the environment, or fiscally (esp Bush fans).

I will vote democrat again and will be proud of it. I would like to see more stories about people like me and not these whining Tea-baggers. They are only in it for themselves and NEVER EVER for the greater good. "what's in it for me?" should be their tag-line

The media blame game. I see where Obama is blaming the media for his failures. Nice spin, bozObama, but we see through you.

I'm with you, ColoradoGal. They can spout all they want, worship their skewed misrepresentations of the Constitution, and rally for their own narrow interests. As for me, I'll just vote. Again. They can crow all they want now. I'll wait for election day, vote, and then deal with whatever is the will of the people. May TRUE common sense reign by then, and may candidates who've actually READ the First Amendment win the day.

This website is plagued with right wing plants who are paid or volunteer to monitor this site and other sites considered to be "left" or "liberal" - parroting comments from article to article, copying and pasting the same rants over and over. People using multiple logins to rant, and reply to rants. I mean it's so blatantly obvious, just read comment to comment - and think about the demographics of the network.

I bet you anything, 50% of the people commenting don't even watch MSNBC. I bet you $500 that at least one plant comments below - tries to insult me and my government - and then 50 lemmings flag this comment until its collapsed.

First of all the people in the picture look like they are rural farmers. i grew up in a rural area in arkansas and nobody has gotten more federal aid and handouts than the white farmers. Remember the black farmers weren't getting the federal money, which is why the USDA agreed to pay them restitution.. My grandfather and his father had to buy their own john deere equipment even though we had thousands of acres of land. i grew up seeing the white farmers kids get govt subsidees and alot of their kids were driving 40,000 pickup trucks to school and writing it off as farm equipment while the rest of us rode the bus or our own cars that we had to buy ourselves...before some idiot says im playing the race card(which i couldn't care less)...my white classmates told me this...so i dont want to see a bunch of hipocritical hillbillies talk about socialism, handouts, and freedom...how about giving back their govt handouts, giving back the freedoms they have stolen, giving back the land they stole from black and hispanic farmers in the 40s...and stop whining because we have a black president because all the sh%t they complain about happen x10 under bush and we didn't see their whinning a$$es protesting. Let's make sure these idiot give back their medicare checks for their drugs, their sscheck, and their farm subsidees...FRAUDS...by the way i dont read responses so dont waste your time..just think about what i said and if it was lost upon you...it just proves my point.

good day

Calculations by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and other independent fiscal experts show that the $1.1 trillion cost over the next 10 years of the Medicare prescription drug program, which the Republican-controlled Congress adopted in 2003, by itself would add more to the deficit than the combined costs of the bailout, the stimulus and the health care law.

Now why isn't the Tea Party all up in arms about Bush's drug plan? Never heard even one of them mention it.

I will vote in November as well as in 2012. I will vote democrat if they put Americans first, just as I will vote for President Obama again. He challenges the status quo and advocate change. The problem is he needs support. Support that is already bought up by Big Businesses. I can't believe the ignorance here in America. And of all things... Following Sarah Palin while she looks out her window at Russia... Wow! I have to give her credit though... She can definitely influence the minds of the weak... Very good at that... Wake up America please!!!!!

Shameful wearing those White Country T-shirts!

TEA Party = Tax Evading Americans Party

I knew the "white county" on the tee shirt would get some commentary. It is the branch of thier "tea party group" has nothing to do with race nucklehead. The article should have mentioned that.

I believe jealousy is what drives your anger Jason Fin, but then I can admit that is merely my opinion. Jason can you admit that what you write is merely your opinion, or do you believe that you are superior to everyone? You tell other people what is meant in an article therefore not owning the knowlege that everyone is different and words have different meaning to different people. Have you had this lack of knowlege your whole life, were you not successful in elementary school interacting with other children? Are you not totally developed as an adult. You do not know how to accept other opinions and realize that is all they are. Most of all you don't accept that all you have is an opinion. Seek help.

Your post details EXACTLY why he didn't give his name. He knew you and your socialist buddies would go out and try to destroy his life. It is the Democrat's forte, "Can't dazzle them with brilliance, can't baffle them with BS (anymore), so tear them to shreds."

Edhead, couldn't have said it any better...

Do you know how to spell HYPOCRITE and do you know what it means?...that you can actually cry foul when it comes to hate and then turn around in the SAME SENTENCE and spew hateful stereotypical rhetoric without even knowing an thing about the man is UNBELIVEABLE.

Right on, Buzzer!!

LouisJ = Bigot. It is the new paradigm of the Democratic Party, stereotype, insult, hate, and still try to claim the moral high ground. The Tea Party movement may just reform the Republican Party; when will the people rise up and reform the equally corrupt (if not worse) Democratic Party? The Tea Party is about removing the rotten melons that are running the government, because they don't represent the people. This has nothing to do with guns, big trucks, hatred, or ignorance. Speaking of hatred, arrogance, and ignorance, re-read your own comments, and see what you have decided to believe. I have a feeling your views were formed without a single intelligent conversation with a Tea Party member. Have you ever had a discussion with someone of an opposing political persuasion? And if so, did you do so without raising your voice, name calling, or trying to suppress free speech? Last time I checked, Liberalism was about personal freedom and rights. It's funny, I think the Tea Party better represents what an intellegent liberal believes than the Democratic Party Leadership or the misguided (and bought and paid for) media.

LouisJ: Did you address any of my points? No. Did I use hateful language? No. Did I use the word bigot? Yes. Look it up. Did you read anything after that word? Doubt it. This is what I was talking about with intelligent conversation, the Tea Party is about fiscal policy and representation. Do you feel your party leadership represents you? The Tea Party is more of a reaction to the failures of the Republican Party than to the agenda of the Democrats. We wouldn't have a Democratic Senate, House, and President if the Republicans that were in power listened to the people. LouisJ, can you tell me one thing that the Tea Party movement is trying to do (something other than "white sheets" and "burning crosses" if you please)? What do you believe about government? Do you support Speaker Pelosi and Harry Reid? What do you like that they have done? What would you like them to do? Can you make a comment that has some sort of content or intellectual value?

LouisJ: Ignorance is ASSumming that you know what that person's personal views are without actually sitting down with them and discussing the issue(s). Just like J.O.S. said, not ONE hateful word or sentence has been uttered, countering your comments, yet you draw your own conclusions and make judgements regardless...pathetic.

Initially took you comment seriously with a retort...now its just comical...no further reponse to you comments is needed...an absolute waste of time...J.O.S. I encourage you to do the same and disengage.

LouisJ is a typical leftist troll....you can't change a closed and empty mind so I suggest he be ignored like the silly child he obviously is. As to MSNBC doing a factual and honest appraisal of the Tea Party, well, one can hope but if previous actions and articles are any indication...don't hold your breath.

LouisJ is a typical leftist troll....you can't change a closed and empty mind

This is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black is it not? I have heard a lot of what the tea party has to say, I have tried to keep an open mind. But at the end of the day i have to say they are indeed clueless!!!!

Troll? What makes you think that? I made a comment and you whackos pounced on it like catnip expecting me to just be ho-hum about your narrow minded responses. Sounds like you just can't keep up with the convo.

That's what I'm trying to tell them Enki, they need to stop living in the past. SMH.

I believe he is ashamed. Why print a picture of George Washington if you are afraid to be identified. Hummmm, the original Tea Partiers (Boston) also didn't want to be identified. That is why they dressed as Native Americans. Cowards all.

You libs can spew your @!$%# and pretend you are oh so superior but at the end of the day the ballot box is all that counts. Enjoy November I know I will!

There sure are a lot of right-wing tools on here, they're worried about the election. But those of us that do the research, and question the "facts" that we hear, actually see a much bigger problem. We're trying to save our country from fascism (corporatism). We see that wealth has become a virtue, and poverty a vice. We see that all wealth is created by exploiting workers, customers, investors, the government, and/or the environment. We see that a small group of very affluent people (plutocrats) have overthrown our government (leaving just enough in place to make most Americans think it's still a democracy). We see that the right-wing has built a massive propaganda machine that spews lies and demagoguery on a daily basis to foment fear and anger against minorities, the government, and liberal/progressive thinking - thinking like our founding fathers had. So let me give you all a few points to ponder...

First, in a capitalist system (which we agree is what we want) a modicum of exploitation is expected - ie the business must make more from a laborers work than they compensate the laborer. However, when it becomes excessive (usurious) it becomes a problem. When prices go up, typically profits increase; but, as we've seen over the last few decades (and before the Great Depression), compensation/payroll did NOT increase for the majority of workers. Why? The upper 5% (business owners/executives) increased their own pay/compensation by hundreds (sometimes even thousands) of times more. Thus we have a major disparity in the distribution of wealth/income, and it's due to usurious exploitation. That is why we have programs to offset the exploitation like welfare, food stamps, etc.

Second, the reason our economy keeps going through these cycles of boom and bust is because our monetary system is debt-based - and this creates a train of debt that keeps crashing (or stretching and breaking). See, in our system of money, the government and other banks borrow our money into circulation from the central bank(s) - which is the Federal Reserve Bank (a privately-owned bank). This system was created in 1913 by several bankers and Republicans. Regional and local banks borrow money from the central bank, and then lend even more out than they have in what is called fractional reserve banking. They only need to keep enough in reserve to pay their debts. So, as long as the people/businesses/governments that borrow from them keep paying their debts, then the bank will keep just enough in reserve to pay it's debts. Now what this does is makes the value of our currency dependent on the solvency of the banks. If the banks fail, then the currency value decreases or becomes worthless. Which summarily explains why we had to bail out the banks. In this kind of system, the ease of obtaining credit (credit easing) ultimately looks like economic growth, but with the obvious caveat of increased risk.

Now, in these times of economic growth, remember that employers don't increase their payrolls/compensation, yet prices did increase. Thus, people found it necessary to sink into debt to survive. Many relied on their homes equity to see them through, and the banks were very willing to allow them to risk their home in exchange for loaning them some "easy" money. Either way, the bank wins...

On top of this, there was a massive increase in the amount of lending for investments - investing on margin. Many investors borrowed money to invest in futures options, which was made easier by deregulation in the 70's and 80's (proof that we do need regulation). See, Republicans/plutocrats have pushed for deregulation (across the board) over the last few decades, and they got it. In 1999, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), which was ultimately signed by then lame-duck President Clinton, allowed the banks to intermingle private funds with investment funds - ie gamble with your savings/investments. This really tipped the scales, but the crux de gras was Bush's unfunded unilateral wars. See, the government (under Republican control) has the tendency to run up massive debts. They advertise decreases in taxes, yet spend more than their Democratic counterparts.

This brings me to the reason the economy collapsed. Monetary/credit scarcity. See, once the banks debtors started defaulting, the banks could no longer lend or they would run the risk of defaulting on their creditors - and some did. This decreased the value of the dollar, now requiring the government, banks, businesses, and individuals to need more money/credit. As this elastic economy stretched and stretched, it became so weak that it broke. When it broke, banks collapsed, businesses stopped producing, individuals were laid off, production decreased, so more individuals were laid off, so they defaulted on their loans, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Third, the government made two good (not perfect) moves to shore up the system. A) They bailed out some of the banks. It would have been better to nationalize them, fire/replace their executives, and restore the bank to solvency before privatizing it. But, this would have fed too much fuel to the right-wing fire. Many are still pissed that the government bailed out Chrysler, but that is what they should have done to the banks. Then, these massive profits that the banks are receiving would have gone into our government. B) They injected stimulus into the economy. Despite the rhetoric from anti-Keynesians, this does work. The principle is simple, in the absence/reduction of individual consumers, the government can take up the reins/slack in demand. Unfortunately, the first stimulus was insufficient for the size of the recession; however, it did slow/stop the free fall. WE NEED ANOTHER STIMULUS AS BIG OR BIGGER THAN THE FIRST ONE.

Fourth, we really need to revamp our monetary system, and have the government take over production of the money. They need to produce enough money to sustain our GNP, and lend or spend it into circulation. And the currency should backed by the collective resources and production capacity of our country. We learned a long time ago that backing our currency with commodities like gold makes it easy to manipulate the currency. By backing with the collective resources and production capacity of our country, it can not be manipulated. Furthermore, it will help ensure that the money represents the value of labor, not the value of someones ability to exploit another.

Finally, I leave you with this: if you aren't a millionaire, voting for the Republicans and other right-wing candidates is self-destructive. The Republicans have for over 100 years represented the interests of the affluent, at the expense of everyone else. Personally, I'd like to abolish all political parties, and make the representatives represent (accountable) their constituents. This would really require revamping our electoral process, but I think it would be worth it. The parties had a purpose in the 17 and 1800's, but today they are divisive and create a conflict of interest. That divisiveness is rapidly tearing this country apart, and the lack of regulation, justice, and adequate government is allowing a few to engage in seditious and organized crime.

LouisJ - I keep running across your posts and I am struck with the hatred and name calling that each contains. Really sickening to read, over and over again. Do you have a point? If so, would you make it, preferably with some information and no infantile insults? Thx.

BTW - I'm blocking you - I've seen more than enough.

Wow Steve that was informative. Definitely the longest it wasn't Clinton's fault because he was a lame duck, blame Bush for everything that went wrong and praise the oh great, wonderful and all knowing Democratic party post I have ever read. Wonderful! I really wish you could hear the applause, it truly was well written. I do, however, agree whole-heartedly with the final paragraph.

The only difference between the parties is the lies they tell. They spend more time attacking each other and making the other look bad than they do actually doing their jobs. I don't think I've seen an actual "this is what I want to accomplish in Washington" ad this whole campaign season. Every one is the same old "he said-she said" bull@!$%#!

Louisj,

this is kind of similar to posting anonymously on an internet forum huh?

Um, wrong. You are wrong. His name is VERY important.

One is either PROUD to belong to a political movement, or one is ASHAMED and thus declines to give his name. I am going to teach you something: this isn't about "narrow-minded attitudes".This is about honesty; if a man can't even be honest about who he is, when he is attending a PUBLIC Tea Party rally in support of their "mission", then this speaks volumes about the man and the Tea Party as a whole.

Joe the Plumber...enough said.

@Rich Boucher: didn't know that you are so lazy as to think that this one nameless man "speaks" for the Tea Party as whole...

LOL...

1. Joe the plumber was and still is a private citizen and his life and events were turned upside down after he was investigated (by an Ohio public official, using a state computer and on state time) by a supporter of obama after he made the then Presidential candidate look as dumb as he has proven himself to be.

2. How is this guy a coward for not giving his name? He's posing for a picture and it's published on this website? Sounds like a coward to me......

The true cowards are the terrorist scum who hide their face behind their head scarf and the liars that they are trying to blend in and fit in while they try to kill innocent people. You know the one's who hide behind the towel while they hack someones head off and publish it for the world to see. Now that's brave, right...?

Keep arguing left, right if it makes you happy it's a shame you can't think for yourself.

I thought that Joe was investigated by plumbers for making plumbers look dumb.

Saul Alinksy's "Rules for Radicals" .....the whole concept of the book is how to demonize and defeat your political enemy

Rules for radicals - that's that book that was published right about the time that The Republican party was breaking into their political enemies offices in order to demonize and defeat them?

Gee. And here you were trying to pretend like it's the left that "demonizes and defeats".

"The TEA Baggers gave themselves their name..." or did you miss that part of the sentence.

Besides, I don't see you chastising the racist rantings and diatribes of hatred from your TEA bagging buddies...

And also, if you guys do not wish to be associated to TEA bags, then stop draping them over your hats.

As I said before, I still care fer ya, you're just lost sheep.

LouisJ: You are not alone! They want their country back...back to 1954. They hate being called Tea Baggers and won't give their names with pride. Sounds like they just like stirring up trouble but don't want to be responsible for the consequences. Kind of like the bullies that influence suicides in schools. Funny how bullies in the political yard and the school yard are so much alike.

I'd like them to know I am an American, I am a proud veteran of the Armed Forces, and I vote. I just don't vote for "them."

Collette, you seem very disturbed by those who disagree with you, people are expressing their opinions. I could understand you railing if they were being called stupid or a**holes but tea baggers is not name calling, you cannot go and tell the teacher. Please note that they are the ones who, not only don't care to get get the facts straight, they out ant out lie and use scare tactics to sway people into thinking their way, and the fat cats are laughing at all the people who actually take them at their word. And most Americans that I know are sick and tired of the tea baggers hateful, ignorant scare mongering...

How does it feel to be in the political minority of U.S. Armed Force members (both active duty and retired)? You want to wager which way the vast majority of U.S. Armed Forces members lean?...towards liberal/big government or conservative/less government? I'm a veteran, USAF Active Duty and I know where I would put my money.

Do any of you even know what the term "tea bagging" means? It is definitely used as a derogatory name when referring to Tea Party members!

They proudly started the teabagging - thus shall they carry their own chosen name, teabaggers, (with all it's innuendos that THEY didn't even comprehend, duh), until they day they grow brain cells, common decency and leave the group of paranoid fear mongers.

I don't understand how the Tea Party is so frightening to the left. These people want the government to have a smaller role in their lives and be left alone. Is that so much to ask.

All presidents have been demonized by the opposition. Bush was called all sorts of vile crap, yet the media never made it a big deal. In fact they thought government opposition was being patriotic at the time. Now it is un-American in the media's eyes.

Why is it any different today? I know the answer, but I'll just leave it at that.

ROTFLMAO. The lying teabaggers have been calling me names for 2 decades. But, of course, not a one of them has the guts to do it to my face. Just like this coward. At least they mostly leave their white sheets at home, now. But they still burn crosses to let us know what great patriotic Christians they are.

Bad Bob, I didn't know the "teabaggers" have been around for 20 years. How was it they called you names (by letters). Or are you just calling anyone that is racist or white a teabagger? Could you send me some links to back up what you are saying? That way I could see who is lying.

Whatever you call them, they look pretty rich and white to me...

Yes they are tea baggers. My ancestors were in the American Revolution, one was a political writer who caused people to think and want a better life. The Tea Baggers who I have met are Bigots, Racists, and Hateful. The Tea Baggers do not have the right to besmirch the American Revolution and our Founding Fathers!

For all that they scream about it, the Tea Baggers don't even know what's IN the Constitution. Did you see Christine O'Donnell's debate on Tuesday with Chris Coons? She literally said "It's a good thing Senators don't have to memorize the Constitution." That was after she couldn't remember what was in the various amendments and expressed AMAZEMENT that the First Amendment says anything about the government not establishing religion.

The really sad part was that when the audience burst out in laughter at her, she thought she had scored a point.

She was referring to "the separation of church and state" whose words are not in the constitution

Well Arrive here are a few things I would like you to know:

My name is Terry Tipton and I'm proud to be a Tea Bag Party Supporter!

I am an American!

I am a veteran of the United States Navy!

I'd vote for an infant child to be President before I'd have anything to with putting another damn Democrat in office.

And finally I'm about sick and tired of the so-called"Liberal/Open-Minded" Democratic Party spewing all their crap. Suddenly if you don't feel the same way or believe the same way the liberals do you must be a racist, rich, bigot or any number of other derogatory euphamisms. You hide behind words like liberal and progressive to hide the fact that you are just simply sorry unhappy people who think if somebody loves you (since mommy obviously didn't enough) it will clear blue skies and sunshine come flowing out from under your woman's skirt. Well guess what, it won't. The world we live in ain't all sunshine and roses and it never will be. People get sick and people die, sad fact of life it's gonna happen to you and it's gonna happen to me. If the sorry s.o.b.s can't get out there and get a job and get their own damn healthcare it ain't my responsibility. I take care of my family and they can take care of theirs! White, black, yellow, red or pink polka-dotted it's the same for all of us. And stop throwing around a veteran like it's some kind of entitlement, it doesn't mean you are any smarter or know any better what's best for this country!

P.S. Thank you for service! (that's all the entitlement I'll give you)

Wait a minute, weren't you the one admonishing others for name calling? Oh, she's peesed off nnnnooooowwww, lol

Well stated!

You're correct...the government should do the MAJORITY of people's will...stop spending money we don't have (stimulus spending hasn't and won't work), and stop the road towards nationalize healthcare (majority of people don't want it)...both have seemed to fallen on deaf ears in this DEMOCRATIC White House and controlled Congress.

Ha! I love this. Sounds like most of you definitely get your news from MSNBC or liberal blogs. You obviously know nothing about the Tea Party except for what you are feed on sites like this. The Tea Party stays away from social issues and concentrates on government over spending and lower taxes. Not for the rich, but for everybody.

I'll admit, some of the members are radical, but you will have that in any large membership. An easy example are the far left idiots who think 9/11 was an inside job. Obviously they don't represent all liberals.

Keep attacking the Tea Party I doubt it really bothers anybody who associate with the movement.

I'd also like to see examples of the "hate" they are spewing. And don't regurgitate the 10-15 examples that MSNBC uses in attempt to vilify the Tea Party.

I smell desperation on the left. Name calling is for children.

Buzzer/Iceman, aren't your comments just a wee bit PARTISAN?

Did the conservatives drive the economy over a cliff? YES

Did the conservatives spend money we didn't have? YES

Did the conservatives DOUBLE the structural debt of this country? YES

Do economists think we shouldn't have done the stimulus? NO In fact, they think it should have been quite a bit more. Also, if the Republicans in congress would stop saying NO to everything and present a more positive attitude, we might actually come out of this recession sooner. Their negativism is just as much to blame as flaws in the stimulus plan for our economy stagnating.

While the Healthcare bill has flaws, it is absolutely needed as a first step to controlling the cost of healthcare in the country (and it certainly isn't nationalized, socialist, etc.). Nearly 1/2 of all healthcare costs are paid by the government. To think this fact would change without radical reworking and policy changes is a pipe dream. The right's insistence on doing away with government programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaide, Food Stamps, etc. is never going to happen because if they tried, the right would never be elected ever again and it would harm countless people throughout the country. The bill, however, has much that most of the country wants (and no, it doesn't have and never had any provision for death panels).

Is the current administration deaf or is the noise from the right deafening? In the various town halls, where congress people were trying to explain the healthcare bill, did the right allow them to even speak? Nope. Has the right had their 1st amendment rights impinged upon in the national debate? Nope. Sometimes I think a little impinging wouldn't hurt in this case but where do we then stop?

The Left isn't all that right but it's certainly not nearly as far Left as the Right has moved. Neither extreme will end up making policy which will actually benefit the PEOPLE.

One last statement/question. Why is the right so afraid to allow open money reporting? The left and center want it and yet the right makes the claim that the left is corrupt or under the influence of big money. ALL money used to influence ANY element of government or elections should be fully disclosed and up front. I truly am sick of big money buying the elections. The Club for Growth is just one (bad) example of the wealthy buying the elections. Will their money end up protecting the will of the people. NO. It will protect the interests of the rich and their ability to further squeeze the nuts of this country.

The downward spiral of the economy was a JOINT effort from both Republicans and Democrats, from a Republican controlled White House that failed to monitor the financial sector adequately, advocated spending money on post 9/11 bureaucratic agencies (DHS) without a way to pay for it (cutting taxes, but expanding government), but approved by the ones that write the checks (Democrat and Republican), Democrats in Congress pushing housing loans to people that couldn't afford... you notice not one defense of the Republicans (conservative) here or previous.

There is SUBSTANTIAL debate on the "appropriate" amount of stimulus spending, but the economic results speak for themselves...BTW this administration has spent more money is its first 18 months in office than ALL previous administrations COMBINED (if the Bush debt wasn't bad enough), with little positive results that are far overshadowed by the damage this debt will create for our children...some people think of others that don't have a voice in the decisions being made now, but will have to live with the consequences we've made later...some only seem to care about the here and now.

Flawed Health Care Bill? How would even the majority of members of Congress even know its flawed, the majority of them don't even know half of whats in it. This was exactly the point of many of the members in Congress that opposed it, they're going to vote no on something they don't have a good understanding of and had no input. Finally, if its flawed and it involves more than 1/6 of our total economy, how could you be so irresponsible to support something that is flawed? I guess the term "good enough for government work" works for you? If members of Congress haven't had time to read the Bill, how do you think the average American that has OTHER responsibilities is going to, in order to make an informed decision? When their representatives say they don't understand the content of the bill, they will logically not support said bill, hence the polls that lean dramatically AGAINST the bill.

Town halls? I didn't know that you knew the way the people who stood up and opposed the bill leaned? Did you ask them?...just because they "oppose" a proposal supported by this administration, doesn't automatically classify them as conservative...ask the Democrats in Congress that made it extremely hard to get this bill passed.

Nice retort! I would reply but you hit it on the head Buzzer.

Buzz, now I know where you took your name from:

The downward spiral of the economy was a JOINT effort from both Republicans and Democrats

Not sure I would say it was a "joint effort", implying they were intentionally butt f#$king the country. I would say that the structural deficit was lowering under Clinton to the point where the deficit clock was shutdown in Time Square but then turned back on within 2 years of Bush's first term. A pretty impressive feat to turn a lowering deficit into a blooming deficit. So the tax breaks for the rich really make SO much sense (if you're smoking sensimilla).

Both sides share the blame in failing to regulate exotic financial products which is the primary cause of the meltdown. Both sides share in the blame for failing to regulate banks sufficiently to ensure compliance with existing rules and for failing to put greater control over the more exotic mortgages. Given these failures, I can't understand how the right can claim that there should be LESS obstacles and checks in place on the financial industry. Other countries have greater regulation and their financial industries don't suffer. Canada really wasn't that badly affected by the meltdown specifically because they have more balanced and effective banking regulation. Why didn't EVERY republican vote in support of the financial overhaul bill, especially given their failure to regulate in the past. Industry will never self regulate. It's not so much like leaving the door open to the hen house as it is like opening the door, handing the key to the fox and going off for a long vacation in lala land. Picked the wrong week to stop smoking crack.

The statement:

BTW this administration has spent more money is its first 18 months in office than ALL previous administrations COMBINED

at best, is a poor paraphrasing of the actual statement:

is more than the cumulative total of the national debt held by the public that was amassed by all U.S. presidents from George Washington through Ronald Reagan

If you drill a little deeper, from Reaguns to both Bushes, the deficit has gone up under Republicans and down under Clinton. If you consider just Bush Baby's deficit, it was more than what Obama has added to the current (you also need to factor in the wars which Bush never did with his budgets). Obama has added about 1/3rd more to the deficit but done so at a time where spending is absolutely necessary to try and pull the country from the toilet where a conservative agenda left it. In other words, Republican administrations have contributed about 2/3s of the current structural debt (I've heard figures of 84%) from Reagan to now.

Some references on actual data and reasonable interpretations (as compared with distortions and rewrite of facts from the right):

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/72404

http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/deficits.shtml

Are regards bills (health, etc.). Maybe it's time EVERY member of congress read the bill in the chamber, in it's entirety. That should sufficiently slow congress down to one bill a year (oh wait, the republicans already did that). It's like the one congressman who brought in a bunch of books and the health bill during a TV dialog between Obama, Republicans and Democrats. The books were mere props and Obama called him out on it (quite a funny part of the meeting). His staff would have already gone over every inch and highlighted for him the talking points. Simple fact is that between staff, consultants, special interests, etc., the congress people already know the meat and potatoes of every bill that comes to the floor. I wonder how the public can make an informed decision when so many lies about bills and administration policy are made by congress people from across the political spectrum.

As regards your last comments, not sure you really get what I stated. The right had put massive amounts of misinformation out to the public before the town hall events on Healthcare (death panels were just one of many examples). They pretty much made an open and productive dialog impossible in the Healthcare debate.

Some examples:

http://www.google.com/search?q=townhall+healthcare&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=vin&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=oia3TIXYFo2pnQf9s_GZCA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB0QqwQwAA

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/25/obama-meets-with-senate-republicans/

When the public has been so misinformed by one side of the debate, intentionally angering people with their falsehoods, it makes it impossible for the truth to come out or even a productive dialog. The right has taken Glenn Beck's words to heart in their embrace of No and non-stop filibusters. Moderates and Centrists are screwed unless we can get back to an environment where the truth is presented to the public so they can make an informed decision. Until then, this country will further divide and head towards a true red/blue state schism.

Correction on the examples of disruptions of town hall events. The CNN post isn't the correct one. Here is the appropriate one:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5765QH20090808

The other link is just another example of republicans as the party of No, even when Obama tries to engage with them on matters of immense importance to this country. Instead of engaging, the right makes claims that Obama is "posturing". They should redirect that statement at themselves.

Most of you fail to even realize the $700 billion bailout was put in place by Bush, and it was necessary, get over it. I didn't hear any of you complaining when Bush was spending more than that a year on misguided wars. Beyond all of that, the whole $700 billion was never even used, only some of it. Even further beyond that when all the money that has been paid back by those companies you all love to hate, the total amount that is a cost to all of us taxpayers is actually around $30 billion and dropping. That's a drop in the bucket for our country, and it saved millions of jobs!!!! WHATS THE PROBLEM!!!

Everyone wants to say it hasn't created any jobs, which is absolutely false to begin with, but furthermore the real point of it was to keep jobs from disappearing, not so much creating new ones. The country was in dire straits, think about how bad it was at one point, now think about losing millions of more jobs at that point. You people don't realize where we would be without it.

As far as bailing out the auto industry, it is the same as the regular bailout. 1. It worked. 2. Most of the money has been paid back. 3. The companies and jobs are still here. 4. The car companies are starting to reopen plants and jobs now.

So far the President has done a pretty good god darn job, yet everyone wants to jump down his throat because they don't even know the facts. Look, it's the biggest recession since the great depression, and it wasn't even his fault what so ever!!!! These things take time and people need to wake up and smell the coffee. You don't comeback from something that catastrophic in 2 years, you just don't.

As far as healthcare, lets face it the system was screwed. From charging people $1,000s a month for individual coverage do denying pregnant women, and abused women, because of preexisting conditions. Furthermore, no one even knows how much it is going to cost, so stop the bellyaching before you even know how you are going to be affected. If taxes are good for anything, taking care of your fellow Americans health seems to be one of the best causes too me?!?!? Maybe I'm just too darn liberal, seems that caring for your fellow Americans is all of a sudden a liberal thing to do. We are one of the worst industrialized countries in the world in the ranks of healthcare, yet you people don't want anyone to change anything. It isn't going to be perfect, but at least someone finally took a step towards something, they can always readjust things along the way.

You poor tea partiers just don't realize who is backing your whole movement. It is huge corporations with their own agendas. Any Tea Party member out there. Please name for us the 3 largest contributor's to your cause. Here's a hint, you can't! Because all of the money is hidden.

Where was the tea party during Reagan when he doubled the debt? Where was the tea party during HW Bush, when he tacked on more to the debt? Where was the tea party during GW Bush, when he added on more to the debt?

So the tea party decides that we've just NOW reached a breaking point under Obama. Fancy the correlation.

But if another President comes in 2012, five bucks says they don't say ANYTHING when he (and it certainly will be a he) continues deficit spending.

most of these guys are racist sore losers, they would rather see this country fail than to come up with some solutions, I would think that they are not really Americans at all.

I guess showing a few Blacks convinces us all they are not the KKK out of their White Sheets the only question is how much they got paid or are these people just trying to fit in ...... same old crap with a different slant to it, its hard for Obama to make things work when the GOP is there only to make him fail, and I hope the people remember that come the election and get all these people out and put people that can work together in our government ........

Shouldn't the government also protect the rights of the minority against the majority? Isn't that was civil rights was all about? Equal Protection under the law?

So what do we as a society to for the people who need help? For too long, we stood by as insurance companies denied coverage in one case after another. If our health care system is so great, why are there Americans who aren't covered? Why do so many Americans go bankrupt each year, because of medical bills.

To hear some on the Tea Party side, you would think that cancer was something only atheists got, and that if their family is devastated by grief and financial loss, that's just the way it is, and maybe if they prayed a little harder, it wouldn't have happened.

Or how about that guy who posted that if everyone just got out more and stayed active to stay fit and healthy? So I suppose cancer never strikes someone in good shape, eh buddy?

Time to start thinking about what is really going on. The scare about Health Care is that it has changed. It was getting worse, and is still getting worse, but at least in this one thing, it's better. If you want me to vote for you, tell me how you will improve it. Tell me how you would pay for it. And then tell me why that is better than what we made into law. Don't just yell REPEAL. Tell me what you will do to FIX the problem.

Empty campaign promises that were never delivered on and new policy that the people in middle NEVER signed up for, failure of the Bush adminstration to control spending...hence the reason why the pendelum is swinging back the other way, not even necessarily towards the Republican establishment (in fact partly in revolt to the RHINOs). The "movement" initiated by the Tea Party for fiscal responsibility and smaller government is apparent who is being elected on the Republican ticket, who will in turn control the House of Representatives in about 30 days, who has a good shot at taking back the Senate and the EXTREMELY safe bet that Obama is a ONE term president...if a Democrat wins he/she will lean back to the middle or a Conservative that will tout conservative fiscal/government policies. Get this...this country is middle to right of center, just go ask Bill Clinton.

The picture is of George Washington - but then I've never met self-righteous people on here with brains god gave a tadpole.

http://www.schoellerfineart.com/gallery/zoom/Special/special-george.html

Judging from the "intelligence" exhibited by the average 'bagger, I think that the journalist may have asked him who that was in the picture and was told by the 'bagger it was George Washington.

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

It IS GEORGE WASHINGTON!! Go to the link I posted. It's oil on Linen painted by Robert Schoeller. He paints fabulous dramatic portraits. Hey, I'm a liberal along with you guys, I can't stand the teabaggers, but let's learn a little about art here and let's try to show OUR intelligence, eh?

It doesn't hurt to learn something new and get our heads out of politics all the time. That's what makes liberals well rounded, more diverse able to THINK. At least I'm hoping!

Oooops! You're right. I HATE the expressiom, but in this case it applies; My bad....:>(

If you're associating the scary to the month of October, then yeah, my kids are scared that people still have the same 1950's mentality of burning crosses and people being hanged from light posts. That's the America the TEA baggers want to return to... no government so that people can act as crazy as the Sharons, Rands, Paladinos, David Dukes, Vitters, DeMenteds, Cheneys and the Crazy Devil Car of Christine.

Other than that, I find nothing scary about you, I actually pity you guys because you have nothing to actually say.

LouisJ - What the heck is wrong with you? You keep spewing out race talk. Are you black? If you are black, why do you have such a problem with it? Who gives a damn? Nobody. The Tea Party sure as hell doesn't care one way or the other.. they are just trying to get the government to be representative of middle class citizens, no matter the color.

Get over yourself, every one else has.

Oh LouisJ. You think they have nothing to say because you don't want to truly listen to the source. Instead you'll let the likes of Olbermann, Maddow, Mathews, Shultz and other liberally biased members of the media tell you what you want to hear. All you know is that the entire Tea Party is full of uneducated redneck racists because that helps you justify your hatred for the right.

Hey look, I can generalize too. The entire Democratic party and members are full of Marxist socialist that want to take all my hard earned money and distribute it equally among the people who don't work.

Wait, that wasn't to far off.

Smokray -- Actually I am black, and you can listen to Rand Paul and his segregationist talk, Angle for her emigrant vilification, Buck for his anti-feminist views, Paladino for his prejudiced, bigoted speeches, Whitman for her hypocrisy on immigration reform... well actually the entire TEA Party who fail to denounce these Republicans for their narrow minded views.

And when I stop seeing the Kenyan, monkey, witch doctor signs, videos and other racist propaganda, then sure I would listen to an argument from that group. But when you have candidates walking around glorifying SS Nazi clothes I don't see that happening anytime soon.

If you truly believe what you say, then say you denounce these candidates...

I never said I hate the people on the Right, I said, I still care fer ya brethren, you're just lost sheep.

This is not some statement I gathered from the news because the news is nothing but opinions these days, I see it come from the candidates themselves. There are Democratic candidates that are wrong too, but not to the sense they are demonizing anyone that opposes them to the point of riling up violence and hatred the same way the Right does.

I wash my hands of this weirdness.

LouisJ... Do you denounce the New Black Panther Party and their racism against whites? Do you denounce the New Black Panther Party for standing outside of a polling place with a club and intimidating white voters with hate speech? Are you even aware of that event?

I'm not part of any Black Panther Party. But I'll denounce it. I don't support a Black Panther Party, matter of fact, I don't recollect there being a Black Panther Party since it disbanded back in the 70's or 80's or whenever. And if there is, I could care less.

But let me guess, you'll always stand proudly behind the racism of TEA bagger nonsense... makes sense to me.

What racism? The Tea Party leaders have denounced the few signs that had any racial overtone.

The signs that show him dressed up as a witch doctor are despicable and the majority of the Tea Party would agree with that. You can't judge the entire group based on a few idiots.

You keep calling them "TEA baggers". Is that not bigotry also?

The president is not doing anything bad. He is suppose to put his hand on his heart, as well as every other non service member.

It's the men and women in uniform that get to salute the flag.

You can't bring up the NBP without bring up the armed Minutemen harrasing Latinos at polling stattions. Fair is fair.

Neither party should be holding their head up. They should all be bowed in shame for how they let us all down.

It's Louis. Why would anyone want to give all their information to a bunch of people I don't know. That's identity theft waiting to happen. Especially in the electronic information age.

If I were the guy at a rally being interviewed for a view or stance and backing a group, I would at least give my name. But this guy was embarrassed that he represents the extreme view of racist, prejudiced and bigoted tolerance. And to always support and never denounce says the same of anyone that locks arms with this bunch. So please stop with the "hipocrisy" hypocrisy swipe, it not only eludes you, it confuses you.

He didn't want to give his name for fear of being dragged through the mud by the Tea Party opposition like yourself. All you have been doing from the start is calling him a coward, racist, bigot, etc. What makes you think others like you wouldn't do the same?

He showed up at a the rally, let MSNBC take his picture which has been put on this website and you think he is embarrassed. This day and age its not hard to find out peoples identity.

I'm sure there were more than enough people at the rally that would have given their names for the interview. I wonder why MSNBC choose to use this gentleman? Could it be to paint an unrealistic picture of the supporters for the MSNBC audience?

No way, surely MSNBC would never do that.

Speaking as a liberal woman. Why did MSNBC choose this gentleman...He was at the rally. He could have had refused his picture as he did his name. I'm not going to run him into the ground. I think he is cute. Perhaps if he gave his name, I could try to change his mind.

You guys were the ones who started using the term "Tea-Bagger"......but then again, facts don't really matter to you guys, do they?

Texas? You got it all wrong, the world doesn't revolve around your big way of thinking and your oilrigged wealth. All things come to an end and the backwards, racist, privilaged way of living texans have enjoyed will come to an end during the next 20 or so years and the old way dies off and the new generation of kids take over!

The Texans politically in charge right now are pretty pathetic in their thinking, so much so that they changed the school text books to try to keep the mean spirited, slanted, old way of thinking fresh and relevant with today's youth... SMH.

Thank you Rush, Sean, Glenn and Fox for creating a hateful, noise-filled US. You are most certainly NOT the problem.

You are not Christians nor are you patriots. The people who live and die by your words are not patriots nor are they Christians.

Thank you for the disrespectful tone you have set for this country. I really worry for my sweet children

Well, I've seen pictures of people taking a crap on an American flag at anti-war rallies. By your logic all liberals must support taking a @!$%# on American flags.

I sit here and read all this back and forth and I can now see that there are alot of people who choose to say they are informed when actually all they are looking for is a place to vent. Concerned Intellectual can put up an argument with whatever it chooses too, but it doesn't change the fact our country is in shambles.

Concerned should actually be acting rather than talking. I will pray for you Concerned. To sit online and pick arguements must really be an ego boost.

Our country is in this shape not because of Bush, not because of any one President, but because we the people have gotten greedy and selfish and stopped caring what laws have been passed, and the media has forgotten how to report facts rather then opinion, and yes it's our own faults for letting politicians become professional politicians, rather then people who actually want to serve and preserve our country.

Yes Concerned some people don't understand the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Bill of Rights, and why might you ask????? Your answer is in the textbooks our children bring home every night for homework, they haven't a clue because it's not being taught in the schools, the history of how this country was founded isn't hardly a blurb in their textbooks, so please have understanding and respect for those who are at least trying to learn.

We have become so concerned about hurting peoples feelings, and being so politically correct when speaking, we have forgotten that this country was founded on Christian beliefs and such it was developed and tailored to such. This person doesn't want this holiday celebrated because it's offensive, so 1 person changes the lives of 1,000's rather than it be the other way around.

I didn't grow up with not celebrating Halloween, Christmas, (oh yes I said Christmas), New Year's, Thanksgiving, and yes we did celebrate Jewish, Irish, German, Christian, Italian, Polish, and any other nationality who had special traditional celebrations, because they were our neighbors! I didn't end up scared for life, I ended up respecting that others besides myself, had important traditions and religious beliefs.

So I believe that we need as a country to find our center, and put things right again. If a parent doesn't want their child to celebrate Halloween with the other children, then pull them from the celebration, have the school give them additional extra credit work and let them sit in the library, but don't change things for 1,000's for 1. We need to get a grip and realize we are all different, we all have something to pass on to our children, but let our children be children, enjoy holidays, without the stress of being politically correct, and let them learn about this country so when they grow, they too can be Intellectual! Stop denying and making more and more demands on our children without letting them first understand it all. Have to chance to see both sides of the issues, and letting them make their own choices as our parents allowed us to.

Yes I am babbling, but I would rather babble then sit down and pick arguements with people just for the sake of it. I would rather be appreciating people for their beliefs and maybe looking at their point of view, although it is different than my own. Maybe that one person can teach me something I didn't learn in school, something that was wiped out of the textbooks, and just maybe that one person is right in their belief.

But I have no respect for someone who claims to be intellectual, and all they do is write comments online and pick arguements, just to get someone's goat up. Sorry I pray for people like you, I have a brother like that and I am not one bit intimiated by him at all. He can be intellectual, he can debate, but in the end that is the only quality he has, empty and emotionless. I prefer a spirited debate with someone who is actually concerned and why, not asking for prove this, prove that stuff. You want proof just search the net, seems like you are on quite a bit.

I pray for this country and I will pray we all wake up before it's too late. Tea Party people have the will and strength to stand up, I don't agree with all of them, but I do believe it's time we the people, take our stand for what is right, and what is just for all not just for a few. It's time the people take back America and run it as it should be run, as it was founded to be run.

The Government is buying up with bail outs alot of companies in the name of America and we the people are America so we own these companies with our tax dollars. I personally don't want to own GM, Banks or failed mortgages that Freddie and Fannie made millions off of, I just want the right to pursue happiness, and yes it's in the bill of rights.

Trader, great post and I agree with you 100%.

Trader, I agree with you 100% on the religion issue, in regards to the holidays specially Christmas and Easter. This is one thing I'll agree with Glenn Beck and those of his ilk we Christians have let the ACLU (American Communist Lovers Union) control things too long. We need to take America back and let there be prayer, and religious music in our public schools (yes, I was raised during that era and we also respected our teachers). I have been around long enough to see what taking God out of the schools accomplished, disrespect for teachers, disrespect for other religions, and crime in the schools. I'm not saying things were always perfect when I was going to school but believe me if I got into trouble at school, I got it even worse when I got home.

I'm just wondering what the health care situation would be if the Republicans took complete control again, remembering they weren't exactly offering up any answers while they were in control other than the token tax break so that people could afford to purchase ins. but how about those w/children who were born with defects that ins. companies wouldn't insure. I doubt seriously if the hospitals would completely care for them without wanting money from someone, more than likely mom and dad who might not have the millions it could possibly cost. Oklahoma's dear esteemed Sen. Coburn is a dr. but I bet he couldn't afford to foot the bill to care for an uninsured person, guess he thinks churches should kick in like the Republicans keep saying.

I might also mention I am also a Retired Air Force veteran (Vietnam era), who saw how the Republicans kept telling us suck it up, you're not getting anything else from the govt even if it was Agent Orange that caused your illness(s). Sen. Reid from Nevada and Pres. Obama have done far more than either Bush did (remember GHWB was a WWII veteran). I might also say remember the Walter Reed hospital hullabaloo while GWB was Pres., he might take credit but it wasn't until after the s&$t hit the fan from news sources because the Republican congressmen in the servicemen/women home states were ignoring their complaints.

Well, watch CNN's piece on the Tea Party if you want to see some backward thinking people. Like the lady complaining about everybody who receives assistance, and at the same time is receiving financial/medical help from the government........HYPOCRITES.

This all began with the election of a Black man to the WHITE house. Where were all these protests when Bush was busy ruining our economy and "war-mongering"?? I'll answer my own question, cause I know some T-Bagger will come back with some idiotic response........... They were nowhere to be found.

I'm from Indiana (where the KKK started), and you can see these guys coming out of the woodwork left and right. They've had their hoods hidden for sometime, but Obama has given them a "legetimate" reason to get them out again. It isn't hard to see through this "movement".

Just too funny. MSNBC, Fox, CNN. And some people believe on their words. LMAO. No wonder these are dangerous times. F all cable news programs. Nothing will change until people learn facts, and dismiss opinions.

Would those facts be your opinion that you want to preach from your pulpit as then truth of a factual nature of only what you see and want others to be so you can live in your make believe world of everything centering around you?

Your sentences are nothing but mere fragments of a coherent thought. Sounds to me like your mind needs defragmented and de-resed for good.

I can help you with that, i think Olberdork is that short guy on MSNBC.

Dear Dave.

I think that's spelled IQ, neither here nor there. You were just showing yours. If we ever end up getting that birdbrain Palin in office, we're up $hit creek without the proverbial paddle.

Non-sensical ramblings Dave. Baited another intellectual? You sound angry at being caught in life by a capitilistic system that you can never have complete control of but often times more than not spin your yarn to make yourself believe that you are in absolute control