E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSI’m deeply conflicted when I look at the Occupy protesters.
The part of me that bought into “the system” all those years ago wants to tell the demonstrators to quiet down. It’s the part of me that feels justifiably selfish. It’s the part of me that’s been chipping away at a mortgage, saving for college, and trying to squirrel something away in my 401k. It’s the part of me that’s quick to anger when I hear people complain about having to go through the “difficult years.” I never say it, but I always think, “Yeah! We all go through those times. It will get better!” It’s also that hopeful part of me that still wants to believe that hard work creates opportunity, and opportunity eventually allows each of us to build a better life if we don’t give up.
However, as the Occupy protests grow, I have to admit that some of what the demonstrators are saying is beginning to connect with another part of me. It’s the part of me that is scared about my kids’ futures. It’s the part of me that sees closed businesses in my town and foreclosed houses in my neighborhood. It’s the part of me that worries that America somehow slipped off the tracks during my watch.
What do you think? Will Occupy Wall Street demonstrations bring significant political and economic change, or will things settle down once winter sets in?
All photos by John Moore / Getty Images
Protesters march through downtown Denver on Nov. 5, 2011. Hundreds of demonstrators marched in a peaceful protest, denouncing the Federal Reserve and urging customers to close their accounts with large banks and deposit their funds into local credit unions.
(Left) Occupy protesters dance on an American flag, Nov. 5, 2011 in Denver, Colo.
(Right) A restaurant patron watches Occupy protesters march by on Saturday.
AP reports
Protesters marched in cities across the United States on Saturday in support of Occupy Wall Street, with a focus on asking bank customers to move their money to credit unions.
One of the biggest protests was in Denver, where about 1,500 people marched to a new site with police escort, denverpost.com reported. The move to Skyline Park was done so that the protest could not interfere with a larger Veterans Day march, the Post reported. Read more...
Bank customers tired of mounting fees have organized a 'Bank Transfer Day' to pull out their money from major financial institutions. NBC's Stephanie Gosk reports.
Related stories
Leave a Comment:
Let's start with a meeting of the minds, enforcing our laws and respecting our country. This is America and anyone who treats our flag that way is arrested!
This just pisses me off even more about these protesters. I swore an OATH to defend this COUNTRY from both FOREIGN and DOMESTIC ENEMIES. I'm also an Officer in Denver. The first 23 that were arrested here, There was only ONE from COLORADO. 22 were bussed in to create problems. 5 of the 22 had WARRANTS from other STATES. Will someone from this group of IDIOT BACKERS tell me who is behind this movement?
Now they are desecrating the FLAG that represents US, It does not represent the people of this Country who are the problem. THE POLITICIANS ARE. I have no respect for people who think this is funny, as shown in the photograph.
I completely disagree with the protesters on a lot of issues, and I am offended by their desecration of our national symbol, but arguing they should be arrested for doing so is an argument against part of what makes our country great. They have the legal right to desecrate our flag, and I for one want to protect that right, because I want to keep my right to tell them they're immature ignoramuses. Arguing that they shouldn't do it is one thing, arguing that we should use the force of law to stop them is another.
It's the old "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire
The picture of these people dancing on the American flag makes me sick. These worthless pieces of garbage have no respect for anything other than themselves. Desecrating the flag in this manner should be a crime. If they think that displays like this are helping their cause they are sadly mistaken, if anything it will turn people against them. Regardless of what you think of our current leaders, this is still a great country and these ignorant asses need to respect that and the freedom that this country and that flag gives them to express their views. In one picture they march behind the flag as a symbol of our freedoms and then these same people are laughing and dancing on the flag. They do not truly believe in anything except their own needs and wants - their need for money and their want of a handout from the government.
CombatMedic69: Well, then you don't respect the US Constitution and the institution of freedom that you have said you protect.
Like it or not, protesting the government, the US and even desecrating the flag is protected speech.
As for the warrants, icky people, etc., then please explain why this is a problem when Tea Party members were allowed to be within shooting range of the US President while wearing handguns. I was lucky to be in an office building when President Bush visited my city and I was told that if I stepped outside when the president was outside, I would be shot. And I saw the sharpshooters, so I believed them.
The issue is banks that are being predators and a large percentage of people being hurt. If these folks can raise that conversation and get something finally done, then so be it, icky people and all.
Democracy is messy. Welcome to America.
@Monkey@Keyboard,
CombatMedic only stated that their actions were repugnant, nothing in the Constitution says you have to like how others express themselves, only that you can't make laws specifically preventing them from doing so. There's a huge difference. If you really respected the Constitution, you would spend a little more time understanding what it means.
Yawn, call me back when half the officer's in the force aren't corrupt or incompetent. As for your whole "they're all criminals bias," not surprised, your a Police Officer who deals with criminals and you happend to have dealt with criminals. If you can't stand your job, quit, there are thousands in line salivating for a chance to be a yes-man.
Free speech, deal with it. In my opinion, it is much better than carrying around a confederate era (flag of the traitors by the way), brandishing weapons around protests, calling others who don't agree with their opinions traitors, calling them such things as :marxist, socialists, anarchist without ever showing any proof (fallacies everywhere). What I love about your comment is that, at the time you swore an oath to defend the country, you also swore an oath to the constitution, congress, and the Command in Chief of the U.S., the elected representative of the majority of people (yes the majority even if by 1%); so where were you with your angry comments when he was being called a Muslim extremist? Where was that Oath that you so dutifully took when people were admonishing for his race? Where were you with that Oath when our President attempted to relieve millions of Americans of crushing Health care bills? Tell, where were you when the House of Representatives and the Senate stop every jobs bills from being argued due to their pettiness. Where were you and that Oath when bills increasing censorship on the internet passed that affected those same protesters you see up there? Where were you and that Oath when corporatons where given rights as people and allowed to use money to influence the politics of this nation?
Oh that's right, you are a Police officer, dutifully living off the teat of the government, bought and paid for the same people you see up there, how strange. And if you think for one moment you will be spared in anyway, think again, the same crushing unemployment, debt, lack of opportunities will be coming your way just as soon as the U.S. officialy declares itself the Corporatocracy it has become.
Alex W-3017978: So you're questioning my allegiance to country? Aren't you pompous.
Frankly, I find it a problem that a Denver police officer sees these protesters as a threat. If you read what he said, he is insinuating that the protesters are enemies of the people and are the people he took an oath to defend our country from...
Expect THEY'RE AMERICANS and he's a cop and he actually has the ability to do harm to those very folks he considers "enemies", his words. Yet, he took an oath to do right, unlike you and I.
Sorry if you don't like it, but I hold police and military to a higher level of responsibility simply because they have power.
Hey "combatmedic", so you must be another one of those half wits that believe what you were doing was honorable. I spit in your face punk. Plus you are a cop? Got any dope? What a jerk-off.
echelon64, GREAT post!
eschelon64,
BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!
FOX and the extreme right will frame the few over zealous, the few violent, the few mentally challenged to brandish all of the 99% as being the same. This simplistic propaganda does not work the more intelligent of us and no longer seems to work for those of us who are late to the party! The only people desecrating the flag in the truest sense are the multinationals, the corporations and the monopolies!
Correction - aways double check before sending.
eschelon64,
BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!
FOX and the extreme right will frame the few over zealous, the few violent, the few mentally challenged to brandish all of the 99% as being the same. This simplistic propaganda does not work with the more intelligent of us and no longer seems to work for those of us who are late to the party! The only people desecrating the flag in the truest sense of the word are the multinationals, the corporations and the monopolies!
@Monkey@Keyboard
I questioned your ability to understand Constitutional doctrine. Considering you continually fail to connect CombatMedic's words to the First Amendment prohibition against government criminalization of speech, I am now also questioning your IQ. Unlike the first poster, CombatMedic does not advocate arrest, only his personal beliefs, I know this might be hard for you, but do you see how there's a difference?
just a comment, but when did the flag become more important than the Constitution? I swore my oath to serve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States; not the flag. Who gives a f*ck if the flag represents our country--the Constitution IS our country. And to Combat medic, you may have done your duty for our country (thanks, BTW) but as a member of the DPD...f*ck you. The DPD has one of the highest rates of cop homicide rates without prosecution in the country
So far I've seen nothing from these children worth supporting, and today's behavior makes me lean towards not supporting OWS. Disrespect is what is being seen today, not real protest. Dancing on the flag, laughing and carrying on like school kids is not a serious protest, it is simply immature behavior by a bunch of idiots.
To all you CRYBABIES out there you can KISS MY A$$. If you cannot comprehend what I said go back to school. I guess the Public school did you wrong. I could give a RATS A$$ if you hate and disrespect OFFICERS that would put their lives on the line for all of you. Just reading some of the posts against me is one of the reasons I will be retiring soon, This LOST GENERATION can go ahead and have my job. That is if you have the BALL$ to try and do it.
PS The FLAG represents the Citizens and the freedom that was gained through the blood of many a Soldiers and Citizens, Go ahead and disrespect us. It just shows us your mentality and what you think of the people that died to give it to you. To all you Keyboard warriors you would not last one day in either of my jobs. Now go and cry on MOMMIES SHOULDER.
Alex W-3017978
Please see what FC, CO Heaven wrote. He writes much better than I do. And you do as well. Have a nice night.
Monkey@Keyboard
Aww an edit, not cool. No truce though, because I am right. Pompous, but right.
Goodnight
Alright Alex, let's call it a truce then.
And just to show there's no hard feelings to you or "Medic", here's a nice Rick Monday moment:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5583612010_4786b33c8d_o.jpg
Take care...
Well boys and girls of Occupy Denver, you just blew it for all of the serious people involved with this movement. That picture of you drunks dancing on our flag will be the end of the moral support of millions of Americans. Shame on you. You don't have the brains to fill a thimble. You screwed it up for everybody.
So the answer to any criticism is simply to point to someone else and say they are worse than you are? Does anyone take responsibility anymore? This picture is said to be of people involved with the OWS protests. They are dancing on a flag and laughing. I have a right to feel however I choose to feel about it-if I dislike it I can criticize it if I choose. The response to that criticism I am seeing here is that people sympathetic to the momement are throwing the criticism back and asking if dancing on a flag is worse than whatever actions they happen to dislike. This is the type of response one gets from addicts who refuse to face responsibility. They throw any accusation or criticism back at the person accusing them and accuse that person of something different to take the heat off themselves. They point to everyone else they feel is worse than they are. Does that change the fact that they are addicts? No. Does all this pointing to what other groups like the Tea Party do or the Iraq War or people who don't like the new healthcare law or whatever change the fact that these people in the picture are dancing on a flag and that I can dislike that fact if I choose? No. If you're going to protest, at least be man enough or woman enough to handle people's responses to it.
It would probably help their cause if they didn't look like they were having a Woodstock moment. As for the flag, it's a piece of cloth (nylon). Abusing it is offensive, but to make it illegal would be to put us on a par with countries that detain political prisoners. I didn't serve 20 yrs to see our freedoms restricted.
There is NOTHING conflicting about the WS protesters.
Straight forward: 99% of them are just there for the partying, the other 1% are anacrhists who are doing the rock throwing and breakage of store windows.
If these folks want to make a difference.....then go to the polls and VOTE. A good place to start is voting OUT the Liberals and Progressives (especially those in the White House and Senate chambers who support these folks).
Monkey@Keyboard......"Democracy is messy."
Heya, Monkey.....The United States is a REPUBLIC. I would suggest you SUE your educational institute.
If you want to see a "Democracy" in action, go to Libya.....wait a minute.....they are going to implement Sharia Law in their "Democracy".
What you see here are spoiled children looking for some shock attention. They don't have a clue, they just want to be seen"look at me, I'm being naughty and all you bourgeoise old fogies out there, well, look at me. I know I'm protesting, something, and I'm offending you by trampling the flag, hey, look at me. Me. Me. Me.
As to the little twerps who think they're so blase and sophisticated, with their "hey, its only a piece of nylon" stupidity, well, children, you have no concept, no clue, your ignorance is beyond astonishing as regards the flag. You don't understand valor, bravery, honor, or anything beyond your exceptionally myopic and tiny little world view. You are children, you know nothing and your words are empty and foolish. When you grow up, perhaps you will understand, until you do grow up, your words are just the mouthings of spoiled brats.
That picture says it all and proves the point I have been making since day one of this ridiculous charade...these anti American pieces of trash are not the 99% but .05% at best. Dancing on the sacred symbol that so many of us have fought for, sacrificed for and died for is one of the most despicable acts i have witnessed in a long, long time and is not something that the 99% of this country will support. With these despicable anti American actions you should consider this crap over and consider yourself warned. I expect this kind of behavior from Iran or Pakistan but not Americans who get to enjoy the many things this country has to offer. You can save your talk about the constitution because those of you who do something as atrocious as this have forfeited your right to those protections and will absolutely get what you have coming and trust me it's not a free education.
Monkey@Keyboard
Your comment above: "... The issue is banks that are being predators and a large percentage of people being hurt. If these folks can raise that conversation and get something finally done, then so be it, icky people and all.
Democracy is messy. Welcome to America."
Oh, so the banks are suppose to respect US citizens, but US citizens have the 'right' to desecrate our symbol of freedom - the flag.
How liberal of you. Grow up. There are REAL hero kids risking their lives for low life like you defending your right to act like a pompous @$$ on this side of the ocean.
Freedom of speech.
Again the people who created this nightmare which is going on is the politicians. The FLAG represents the GREAT PEOPLE of this Country. You can call this freedom of speech, I CALL IT DISGUSTING. For all the people who have died for that FLAG I salute you, be you a civilian or from our Military you gave your all so that we may be free. For anyone who does what these protesters are doing You have LOST all respect I may have had for your cause, Or even for you as a person.
Signed, An AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Sure it's disgusting, but is desecrating a piece of cloth worse than forcing families into poverty, bombing countries to the stone age, destroying my and your rights to live meaningful lives in this country?
In my humble view, no.
Um, that is the politicians people vote into office in this country that are "bombing countries into the stone age".
Concerning the American flag being trampled on, it disgusts me and angers me too, especially since everyone I work with including myself put our lives on the line to protect the people of this country and this flag every day. will never support these idiots who do not even know what they are marching for.
Razz
Don't be so naive.
What the flag represents to you is different that what it represents to others. If you truly respected the constitution, you'd support these people.
I don't get CombatMedic69! Yes, there are trouble-makers involved in the Occupy movement, just like there are trouble makers involved in the Tea Party.....but you jackasses can't own that! What I've heard nearly immediately following any problems has been people from the "movement" disavowing what happened and condemning those "troublemakers". I live in the Bay area and saw what happened in Oakland, and the Occupy folks did not want that. There were thousands of people who were respectful protesters, with maybe a few hundred hooligans. Where were the Tea Party leaders when disgusting images of the President, and other disgusting images were displayed.....or racist language used? Funny, it's always a different standard isn't it? Also, Mr. CombatMedic69......the U.S. Flag should be honored and respected, but the Presidency shouldn't? So it's disgusting to desicrate the flag (an inanimate piece of cloth), but not disgusting to treat the President the way he has been treated (by the way, I mean Bush or Obama!). Get a life and get real! Get off your high horse and do something about the politicians that you are blaming then!
I don't support these people also based on the fact that they want everything given to them, not just the flag trampling. Really, you want the govt. to pay all of your college debt off because you cant afford it? Its not the governments fault you racked up debt. How about free medical care? Why dont you look at our friends up north of us and tell me how well that works for them? Why do you think most of them come down here for medical treatment? The only thing that people are marching for that makes any since is changing the way people get taxed.
Carson, Then answer my question. Who is busing these people in? They say they are for us, We'll who the HE!! are they? My Flag is not just another piece of cloth. I do not know of what circle jerk of friends you have, But I know mine. And you all can kiss my rear end. I do not see you protesters helping the homeless, In fact they got into fights with them here in Denver because the homeless wanted something to eat and the protesters that I saw could care less about them. Bring all your hate down on me and my fellow Officers, Its something we have to put up with everyday we go to work. Someone should go and SLAP YOUR PARENTS if this is the way they raised you to think.
if you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you should be for the Occupy protests. If you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you shouldn't vote Republican. It's pretty simple.
Was wondering how long it would take until this turned political.
Pretty much says it all!
So Soros and Moore are demorcats? Your generalizations are idiotic.
I'm not gay, does that mean I should stop supporting gay rights?
@Fred Arlo Goss
if you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you should be for the Occupy protests. If you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you shouldn't vote Republican. It's pretty simple.
Becareful of 'absolutes' like your statements. Politicians should be voted on what they are standing for and if they dont... they lose the next election if they dont deliver. As an independant, I try to vote for the right person... not the party because 'im told to'. I voted for Obama and George Bush Sr. Never should it be "vote this way because its THEIR fault". Someone else was successful in such absolutes of them vs us.... He took power in Germany by making it THEIR fault. Though the Occupiers have the right idea... so did the Tea Party, but there is someone always in the shadows ready manipulate a seemingly righteous idea by exploiting it to their benefit. THINK .... not follow.
NUMBER34, thats not political, just a fact.
@ Jayfos
Damn straight! That is one of the smartest things someone has written on here in a while.
Im going to add to it. People need to stop following party lines. People need to do research on what they are voting for and if they do not know what they are voting for should not vote at all. The party system is outdated and a joke.
Alex, you are part of the 99%, so live with it, and appreciate that these people want all of use (except the 1%) to live better lives.
So because I am not part of the 1% I should support the protestors? The ones that think everything is owed to them?
I worked during college. I got student loans. I got a used car. I paid off my student loans. I got a new car. I bought a house. I am successful and am well paid working for a corporation. I will retire and have savings.
Why would I support a bunch of freeloading people that feel everything is owed to them. That feel that they should not have to pay the student loans back that they took out to get some stupid degree that will allow them to make minimum wage? That complain about corporations when most of America works for a corporation. That can go spend $20-30K on a car and pay it off in 5-6 years, but cannot pay $20-30K worth of student loans off in the same amount of time? That feel that they should be able to buy a house right out of college instead of saving and paying off their loans first? They complain about banks forclosing on people that cannot afford the homes they bought, but yet also complain that banks should give everyone money to buy a home whether they can afford it or not?
Sure, I feel sorry for those that worked jobs and lost them and their homes, but most of the protestors are true deadbeats. Those that were responsible when they lost their jobs and homes will recover. Give them a few years, they will be working again and back on the road to home ownership. The protestors will still have nothing, still be protesting.
Reminds me of a "superhero" here in town that they profiled in the newspaper. He dresses up crazy and says that he is a superhero and is trying to help the homeless. He likes to give them care packages. Problem is that he does not work, he leeches off the government to live. So he wants people to donate to him, so that he can help the homeless. What a crock. If you have the time to run around in a costume, you have the time to get off you ass and get a job. Then if you want, use YOUR money to help the homeless.
Steveyo,
My life is just fine thank you. And I am part of the 99%. If people want a better job, go to school. Work hard. Don't make stupid decisions. Save money. Be responsible. Conform to society instead of fighting against it and not wanting to be part of it and then demanding that society owes you.
Jim,
It's not that easy since the deregulation started in the 80s. Do some research and you'll see that the gap between rich and poor is the greatest since the Great Depression. Think about what that means to the average joe. The wealth of this country is being funneled to the richest at an exponential rate. We are becoming slaves, regardless of whether we work hard. Think about it: did families need to have both spouses work 30 years ago to afford a car and a house? Times HAVE changed, because the system that was created to protect the middle class has been severely compromised over the past 30 years. This isn't an opinion; it's a fact.
I bought a home I could afford - -I didn't feel somebody should give me a better one.
I drove a car that barely ran for many years because that was all I could afford - I didn't expect somebody to give me a better one.
I made alot of soups instead of steak for many years because that was all I could afford - I didn't expect anyone to give me better food on their dimes.
Occupy Protesters are upset because they are not getting everything they want for free without getting off their lazy asses and WORK boofrickinhoo
damn Jim...
your comment saved me a ton of typing, was going to say the same thing :)
Like Dad always told me, if you work hard, tell the truth, and don't depend on others you will be better off than 99 percent of the people. It sure seems like he was right.
If you agreed with the author, then you should be a member of the Tea Party. For the past couple of years the Tea Party has been concerned about our children's future. Yes, we've also been concerned about businesses being closed. Of course, the reason is course that our federal government has taken. Increase in deficits. Increase in regulations. Increase in the President criticizing all segments of the private sector. Increase in government spending. If you are in favor of a robust private sector, then it's clear that you need to vote against the current administration and the dems in Congress who do not have your best interests in mind, but their own power.
Hi,
I'm not sure how many folks commenting, or reading this have been to an 'Occupy' site. I have- three times, actually. I'm impressed with the sincerity and kindness of the people I met and talked with. From people who've been cut off medical care, to (oh my god) veterans, postal employees, teachers, self-employed and the homeless.
I don't recall anyone asking for a handout. They see a system out of whack- big corporations who are skewing laws, politicians who are either ideologically or financially inclined to their own interests, or those of big biz who will give them money to run for office, and perhaps a job once they leave office- not to mention those junkets!
I did not see anyone walk on, spit on, or burn a flag at the three locations I visited, and stayed at for several hours. It's real grassroots democracy in action, for better or worse. Un-organized? Yes, but their message is resonating with many out there who may not have gone to a rally. As a mortgage holding, father who works for a big company, I like having a 401k and health insurance. I don't think I'm alone in concerns I have over how the country, and both political parties have become so steeped in money, that they are afraid to challenge their paymasters (who exactly has been investigated or jailed for the collapse and bad loans?) anyone, anyone?
We've been able to have a house and a car on one income-not a new car, not a lot of fancy clothes, not all the latest up-to-date gadgets, not many vacations, not going out to eat much or in fancy places, etc. During the worst period up to now when we were out of work, friends and family repeatedly failed to understand that we simply didn't have the money to do certain things they were able to do; and I had to tell them over and over again. No one owes us the best of anything. We have food to eat and a roof over our heads plus transportation. We're better off than a lot of people because our house is almost paid off. I trust God to meet our needs for the future. He has in the past-got a job just in the nick of time, in fact. But it took a lot of work to get that job-40 hours a week or more on the computer looking for a year plus a LOT of networking and interviewing and taking certification classes and follow up. We're obviously not in the 1%. I am VERY concerned about the country and there is much I could protest, but I have yet to see anything about the OWS protesters that provides a solution that I can get behind. There is much being said, in fact, that I'm not sure I wish to be identified with. If they come up with something I can really get behind then perhaps I'll be there. In the mean time, I protest all the time in my own way (in fact my family always tries to get me to shut up!) and I also attempt to make a difference in the world in my own way.
Why the heck are the protestors dancing on the American flag? That does more to piss me off at the protestors than to empathise with them.
I like it. If I choose to dance on the flag, I will. If you choose to try to stop me, I will stop you. Its just that simple. Right now I am getting ready to light a flag on fire so I can piss on it.
They are the ones that do not and will not work. They are the ones that make up that 5 or 6 percent of the low lifes that want us working people to feed and house them because they are to lazy to work.
Gotta love the internet tough guys! You type em nobs, you type their asses into the dirt!
Unfortunately they are OWS. They are definitely part of the 99% but they don't represent the 99% any more than the Union thugs who have taken it over represent them. Stomping on our flag is just disgusting. The destruction they committed in Oakland is just disgusting. Defecating and urinating in public even on police cars is disgusting. Shutting down the small businesses around them just disgusting. Shutting down the port cost well over $10 Million while they screamed and pronounced victory and for what? Rapes, street fights, refusing to feed the homeless your donated food, the millions of dollars half of the 99% are paying in taxes to support the police, the list goes on and on. You represent only a small and very ugly portion of the 99%. You have even started losing the support of the liberal media who demonized the Tea Party but tried to pump you up as the Savior of our Society. You are done OWS.
Didn't the US Supreme Court rule that burning an American Flag is protected political speech under the 1st Amendment? If so, I think dancing on it would qualify as well. The photo sure looks like political speech to me.
For the youngsters, people liked to burn American flags back in the 1960's to protest the Vietman war.
No comment on if I agree with it.
What-3106699 appears to be disgusted. Can anyone help?
This is a good start. However, we need a revolution. The system is no longer democratic and it is corrupt to the core.
On a side note, this report is deceptive. Credit union customers can use their ATM cards at nearly all credit union ATM machines across the country, not just at their local credit union (without a fee).
Yes, there is freedom of speech, but what grieves me is that these people don't seem to appreciate the fact that we have freedom of speech. A lot of brave men and women in our history have died to protect that freedom of speech.
The tragedy is that they are wasting all this energy, money, and money that cities can't afford to spend to control them and they are not saying anything other than banks are bad, give me their money. Stop posing as the 99% because you don't represent anywhere near 99%. Say what it is you are fighting for and what purpose you are hoping to accomplish with your occupation. The actions in Oakland are self-destructive, brainless, and are making California's economy even worse. You people are hurting the very people you claim to represent.
OCCUPY MOVEMENT
2000+ arrests nationwide
murders, rapes, drug arrests, thefts and now riots
Democratic and MSNBC response: It is wrong to judge a whole movement only by a few criminals who claim to be part of the movement
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TEA PARTY RALLIES
0 arrests, 0 rapes, 0 murders
Democratic and MSNBC response: The Tea Party are ALL EVIL WHITE MALE RIOTING RACISTS and CRIMINALS and must be stopped!
Don't generalize. A large number of the people supporting the Tea Party are part of the Occupy protests.
All I ever remember about any Tea Party rallies is old farts with teabags on their heads. OWS isn"t a politicial party it's a movment.
enigma. . .And where do you get your figures from to support this claim? Or is it an attempt to legitimize an incoherent movement of misfits?
It is not the "te party" it is the "tea baggers" financed by the kok brothers and their brother from another mother.
Uh, that's because they're too fat to do anything, and the people funding the party have paid the authorities off in one way or another.
By paid off do you mean they got the necessary permits and go home eventually? If so then I agree with you.
The tea party is full of whining hypocrites that don't want to pay taxes which is more childish than anything else. I doubt every one of the crime statistics you've cited since you don't provide a link or cite your source. Figures don't lie, but liars sure do figure.
You know what I think is childish; I think Occupy protesters who want their college loans forgiven are petulant children. I think those who throw fits when they do not receive their fair share of other people's money are developmentally challenged tools. I've never heard of anyone at a Tea Party who wants to abolish taxes completely; they just don't want new ones. I mean seriously, grow up and learn to accept responsibility for yourself. Do any of you even realize how pathetic it sounds that you can't even manage to take care of yourselves? It is truly sad!!! Where is your pride? I'm in my twenties and I have to be thankful that I was taught at a young age the value of self-reliance because the concept clearly escaped many in my generation. Seriously pathetic.
Wish I could JQ a few more votes for their comment.
I approve of Occupy. It's our right to protest. Please, Please, don't dance on my flag. I'd rather see you burn it, than dance on it. Look what you're showing other countries, other peoples.
If you show no respect for the most basic symbol that represents so many people, how will you gain respect from others. To me, it's just plain wrong to dance disrespectfully on the symbol of our country.
If you disrespect my flag, U disrespect me. No one is keeping U here, in America. Go live somewhere else if you want. You have no respect and no credibility from me when U disrespect my flag.
If I would've been in that crowd, U would've had a problem with me. Lets just say, it wouldn't have been on the ground very long.
I hope someone burned that flag after all was said and done. It's seeing stuff like this that will work against U. If you're looking for credibility or respect for your cause, whatever it may be, U lost it on me. Sad.
The picture of fools dancing on the American flag just pissed me off. I wish there was a law to protect our flag. Young American soldiers died for our flag.
Old American soldiers too.
I love what they're doing, but the flag thing done by a few pissed me off too.
One other piece of advice to the occupiers. We have a powerful weapon in America. It's called the ballot box. Get back in to society and attempt to persuade people of your position. That's what the Tea Party did and it made a huge difference in 2010 and I suspect it will make an even bigger difference in 2012. In President Obama, you elected a man who has gotten more money from Wall Street than any President in history, so don't give him a free pass. Occupy Apple, Occupy Google, march on Michael Moore's home and George Soros's home - but you don't do that do you, because it really isn't big money you're against - it's big conservative money you're against. Be honest, but what I think you'll discover is you will have a hard time convincing a majority of Americans to agree with you because most Americans believe in working hard to get ahead, not sitting in a public park.
Last time I looked it is we who elect our presidents, representatives, senators, and on down the line to the local level. That to me is a democracy. If you don't think we are one, then think again next time you vote. It is a birthright in our country but no so in many.
Send these kids to the military and on to a life of a a lot more discipline than they are accustomed to at this point in their lives. I teach kids like these. They are a generation that has ideas and hopes but seems to lack the fortitude to pursue. Most, IMHO, want the top without have to put in the time. This small enlightenment on my part comes as daily I see kids with great brains, want the top grades, but lack the persistence and patience to work toward goals. They just want them now.
There is NO excuse to walk on the flag or a facsimile thereof.
Actually, there is an excuse. It's called Texas v. Johnson. Look it up.
Does anyone else find it ironic that they are protesting corporate greed while simultaneously demanding more and more and more from our government?
I think what most people in this country lack is perspective. I'm sorry, but life isn't fair. It never has been. But this is one of the safest, easiest times to be alive in the history of the world. Study world history for five minutes and then try and argue this point. I want people to stop whining about what they don't get or what they think they deserve and start being grateful for what they do have, and if they're that dissatisfied work on improving it. Standing around in the street looking like dumb asses solves nothing. If anything if gives conservatives more fuel to argue that liberals are a bunch of lazy hippy idealists with no grip on reality who expect government to solve all their problems.
I am part of the 99%.
They aren't demanding more from the gov't; they are demanding a different gov't.
This is the beginning of a new political party. Just watch.
I understand that these morons think their life in MY country is tough. I understand that they are not getting rich when the smart, educated people are. I understand that they want everything handed to them even though they didnt earn it. But, if you think you can dance on My American Flag youre dead wrong, Please get the hell out of MY country.
You do realize the amount of college educated people young and old who have lost their jobs because corporations like the idea of paying people in China & India a tiny fraction of what wages are here....
YOUR country?
Not everyone can afford an education, especially not right now. They are rightfully angry that there are no jobs because they are being outsourced and Wall Street is screwing the economy for a massive part of the American population.
YOUR flag?
and again... YOUR country?
Sorry bud but it belongs to us all and in OUR country people have a right to express themselves. Perhaps you don't appreciate that kind of freedom. If that is the case then it is you who is in the wrong country.
The vast majority of jobs that get sent to India, Indonesia, etc. are not college grad jobs. They are factory jobs to make toys, clothes, shoes, etc. or basic call centers and electronic manufacturing. Yes we might lose a few jobs to the electronic manufacturing sector for college grads, but not a ton of them. All of these jobs that were sent over seas were taken from people that did not have college degrees and were either lower to middle class people living day to day.
The other issue is too many people who go to college spend tons of money on useless degrees such as pyschology, political science, english, theatre etc. It is really hard to find jobs that require degrees like that. So all that college debt is there with not much of a chance to get a job and then people that get degrees like those complain that there are no jobs.
Razz....Tell that to all those laid off IT and computer tech workers and there are tons of them...India is booming because American companies decided that it's cheaper to send those technical jobs over there as their college educated workforce make a lot less money....
I know LOTS of people who have been laid off from college level jobs because their jobs were outsourced including a very close family member with two masters degrees who was head of the most productive team in his technology company. He and the entire team were laid off and all the jobs were outsourced. The company intends to outsource almost all of its jobs to Asia in the next few years-that's hundreds of college level jobs from the US from one company alone! (Razzgrizz, you might want to recheck your data.) People wonder why we are losing our technology edge. I say we are handing it away on a silver platter! My family member's team was developing new technology in the US! Now a team in Asia will be developing it. Apparently, there is a tax advantage in outsourcing labor as well as the labor itself being cheaper.
This was an opinion piece, and should have been noted as such.
Just not getting it, i'm the "99%" worked hard, living better than most and sure as hell will never support their cause after seeing them disrespecting the flag that i swore to defend. nothing but a bunch of spoiled clueless...i could go on and on.
...and please keep in mind that every barrel has some bad apples. I support the message, but I also disagree with them desecrating the flag like that.
I hope someone tells the protestors that no one will hear their message if they treat our nathion's flag in that manner.
While I am supportive of the protesters, I am saddened that they would desecrate the flag as shown above. This is just blatant disrespect. This movement is not about protesters vs the United States of America. It's about having better opportunities, and making things a bit more level. I think it's safe to say that we're all just tired of seeing our taxpayer dollars go to bail out companies deemed "too big to fail", and then have them turn around and pay their executives millions of dollars for fleecing their customers. I work my ass off because I love my job, but when I see my bonus drop because of executive decisions - and then see that the same executives are making far more of a bonus then they even did before...that's a problem. These companies just fail to realize that it's not really these executives that are making the gears turn - it's the employees. Good leadership only goes so far.
But I digress. Occupy protesters need to have more respect for the flag. Period. Just because you have freedom of speech, doesn't make what you're saying or expressing right.
...and the douches dancing on the american flag should be given community service at the VA
Have always hated protesters and hippie wannabes...they march with the flag in front of them and then act like total fools by dancing all over it...makes me want to go down there and bitch-slap everyone of them and see what they got inside...not just the spew out of their disgusting mouths
@Fred Arlo Goss
if you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you should be for the Occupy protests. If you aren't a member of the 1 percent, you shouldn't vote Republican. It's pretty simple.
Becareful of 'absolutes' like your statements. Politicians should be voted on what they are standing for and if they dont... they lose the next election if they dont deliver. As an independant, I try to vote for the right person... not the party because 'im told to'. I voted for Obama and George Bush Sr. Never should it be "vote this way because its THEIR fault". Someone else was successful in such absolutes of them vs us.... He took power in Germany by making it THEIR fault. Though the Occupiers have the right idea... so did the Tea Party, but there is someone always in the shadows ready manipulate a seemingly righteous idea by exploiting it to their benefit. THINK .... not follow.
Man, that's a lot of Occupy Wall Street Protesters! Thank God they all don't have Guns like those Dumb A$$ Teabag Protesters! Those Teabagger Protesters were just Rent a Crowds from those Koch Brother Teabaggers...
Malcontents. I was on a business trip in Canada last week and happened to walk by 5 or 6 of these degenerate a-holes in a city square. They looked like they just crawled out of a VW van from Woodstock. So...I decided to have a little fun...I said "Hey...I work for ExxonMobil and just wanted to let you know we made $10.3 billion in earnings last quarter! Y'all have a nice day now!" One of them got in my face and I dropped him on his ass so fast his eyes practically popped out of his skull.
Peaceful protest is ok....it's the American way....but dancing on the flag and being a total menace to society isn't.
If any of you OWS a-holes are reading this right now, just know that all the school yard misbehaving isn't going to change what you see is wrong. Change is achieved through the ballot box. Less than 20% of Americans exercise their right to vote...THAT IS PATHETIC! I'm guessing that the vast majority of you are in that 80% who sat on your sofa and ate cheetos to watch the big game instead of voting.
Wow, thank goodness I moved away from MD years ago, looks like they have been taken over by Fox News pundit wannabees...I am a Navy vet, also a teacher and I have been to the protests in Chicago and they are not a bunch of "hippies". As a matter a fact, there were teachers, nurses, firefighters, police officers and a bunch of my former Navy shipmates at the protest that day...no VW vans either...
Oilman, do you seriously think these people who are so passionate, and dedicated to this cause, are really apathetic when it comes to voting? I somehow think they are nestled very safely in your "less than 20%".
Most of the OWS crew can't vote because they're probably FELONS
Way to pick a fight, Oilman. Did he bleed?
Bris...from what I witnessed in the 3 places I've seen these people...yes.
Northern...I didn't "pick" anything...I did nothing more than to exercise my right to free speech just like they are. The guy charged at me and I felt physically threatened so I responded accordingly by knocking him off balance and onto his ass (I didn't hit him with my fists). I told him that if he charged at me again that I would set him on his again, only this time with a few broken teeth. He got the message.
As one who participated in several protests of the 60's, we made our voices heard but we made mistakes. I offer these lessons learned:
1. Keep on message. Do not confuse why you are there with how cool it is to be there.
2. Do not burn or step on the flag of the United States of America. We are all one country.
3. Do not abuse substances, yourself or those around you. There is no need if the message itself is powerful enough. Those businesses you block or traffic you stop are with you as long as you don't prevent them from their own minimum wage job if lucky enough to have one. Small businesses hire people. Vandalism only dilutes the message and shifts the focus.
4. Do not hurl bottles, rocks or any other item at the police. In any context, this is assault on a police officer. They are part of the 99% and union members. They could be part of the message.
5. Remain non-violent always.
Your message of income inequality is a valid one. Speak it wisely.
6. And don't be a douchebag by setting your fat ass on the sofa during election day.
jan,
Doesn't sound like the 60's demonstrations I remember. Recall the "peaceful" protests of the '68 Dem convention?
Spike...read Jan's post again...her point is that the 60's demos were NOT peaceful in most cases and there were lessons learned from that.
Jan-467149, for reason's I won't detail here, I cannot agree that income inequality is an issue.
But, you do present a very good set of guidelines for the protesters. Perhaps they will begin to realize and embrace some of them in the near future.
OilmanMD, your comment about election day is probably the best guideline of all.
I'm a naturalized American Citizen......from a Southeast Asian Country, and I have NO COMPLAINTS about our Economy. Back where I'm from.....we don't have: 1. Welfare, 2. Housing Assistance, 3. Jobs, 4. Our streets are as DANGEROUS as ever. Meaning, you just don't take a stroll in the Park after 10:p.m. 5. We don't have the means to a City College Education.
We are a nation of 92 million people......Close to 10 million have to work OVERSEAS......just to "make ends meet." I've lived here in America...for over 50 years..it's true I'm NOT rich....but I'm NOT poor either....by my former country's STANDARDS. And...with ALL the complaints I read about in the Newspapers, I cringe at the thought....."What if those OCCUPY WALL STREET protesters were to live in that South East Asian country I was from...at one time in my life."
Then....THEY'D REALLY KNOW WHAT THE WORD POVERTY IS REALLY LIKE. In my former South East Asian Country, we have about 92 million people, and yet...close to 10 million have to work OVERSEAS....just to make ends meet. Otherwise.....it'd be MISERABLE to just even think of living there.
We in America....have gone MANY YEARS through a world of PLENTY. We have been WASTEFUL in more ways than one. We have FORGOTTEN about that REAL DEPRESSION of the '30s.....where ANY KIND OF JOB WAS WELCOME .......regardless. WE have FORGOTTEN what our GRANDPARENTS have had to go through. They NEVER expected anything on a "silver platter".
The young kids of today may even have their parents take them back home....in case they "strike out" in the jobs market.....looking for work. ...Yes....what we really need is a 1930's type of DEPRESSION to really know....how NOT to take things "for granted"....ever again.
Capitz?
Good post.
Excellent! Thank you for your enlightening perspective. I hope some of the protesters will read it!
Yes, and we want to keep it that way. That's why the protesters are marching. So we don't become a 3rd World country like your old home in SE Asian. Get a clue.
CombatMedic,..Agree about the desecration of the American flag, freedom of speech or what ever, it is disrespectful to the American people in general, and to those who have fought, been maimed, bled and died to preserve the liberty and the right of free speech that so many flaunt without thought to the price that has been payed for such liberties.................
However, I do support the OWS protests and hope they will evolve into a state by state voter inspired movement to enact people's laws to place ethical rules on public elected representatives which forbids them from accepting campaign donations from any source they were not elected to represent in an official capacity in a particular legislative body...........Or, at least pass a proposition which will require public elected representatives to sign a 'Good Faith' contract with constituents pledging not to accept donations or gifts of a monetary value in excess of $25 from any source they were not elected to represent in an official capacity in a particular legislative body........... Contracts are binding, and are the best way to place restrictions and limits on political corruption
So much hatred, so little understanding.
Exercising their 1st Amendment Right vs. state/local laws about loitering, disrupting traffic, etc....
Whar is America today?
Why are Americans dancing on the flag that I fight to defend. Arrest them all and send them to Afghanistan. Go see what a country without freedom is like and then you might respect that flag.
Thank You...Stay safe and come home to your family safely.
Thank you for your service... Bless you and yours....
That is the first time in my life that I have seen such disgusting trash...... I don't care what they say... and they actually have something to say... but I wont listen.... they disgust me and I would go to jail for defending my flag....
Boris you are a piece of trash and yes there is plenty of hatred and all of it is now directed at you and these protestors. You are a piece of garbage as are the rest of these worthless excuses for human beings and while I have fought and sacrificed for people's right to freedom you and anyone who condones these acts have sacrificed their rights to protection by this great country and deserve everything that you have coming. Game set match my friend...you will now see what the real 99% think about this atrocious act!