To gain respect, you must first earn it; where is the Muslim outrage at the anti-American Muslim movement, Ft. Hood, times sq., American Muslims going to the Mid-east from Minnesota to kill non believers, speak out, let us know you are against them, or not .

saxon

Do you hold Christians to the same standard? Remember Timothy McVeigh. Do Christians have to "earn respect".

Read the Constitution. All religions are tolerated, but no religion is given preference by our government.

Earl has been drinking anti freeze again, hasn't he? I hate it when he does that.

So what happens if NYPD does not respect you?

What're you gonna do?

Folks, this is not Afhganistan or Pakistan where you threaten cops who are doing their jobs....

You have to understand a bunch of people who had the same beliefs as you killed 3000 people in this city!

NYPD has the ultimate right and support of the American people to make sure that never happens again....

If you want respect, go back to your countries...you can do whatever you want there...you can pray a million times a day, you can cook nitrates there right infront of the cops, you can do anything you want...as simple as that....

This is not about hate...Americans are beyond that after what happened on 9/11

We are just tired of demands...

On the one hand it's unfair to target law-abiding Muslims. On the other hand if a terrorist wants to hide, chances are he's gonna hide in a Muslim area.

There isn't a single acceptable solution to the problem. Keep an eye on the whole city and everyone will be pissed. Stop monitoring things and terrorists will bomb something. Stare at the Muslim areas and it would be discrimination.

Doc

Can you tell me why anyone should have to negotiate not being spied upon by police? Why is it that you believe some Americans have fewer rights and less freedom than other Americans? Why is it that you believe that the Constitution only applies to some, and only some of the time?

I am going to say briefly: Law Enforcement has spied on biker gangs, racial gangs (KKK, Black Panthers, etc), church groups, and on and on. If there is a reason, they will spy and should. If they find nothing then there is no problem.

Stop monitoring things and terrorists will bomb something.

You are clearly terrified (and largely without evidence). I don't feel like we are on the winning side when people say things like that.

Um, this isn't "Let's Make a Deal", Muslims.

Respect is earned, as others have said here. It's very true. If you want respect from the law enforcement agencies of this nation, I would suggest you do NOT ally yourself in any way with the very group you proudly state belonging to: namely the religion of "Islam". If you insist on it, the ONLY way you can earn the respect of the rest of America (including it's police) is to be the LOUDEST critics of your fellow Muslims in the Middle East who commit acts of terror and pure barbarism in the name of the religion you share.

You NEED to distance yourselves from that image, you NEED to take up the STRONGEST OPPOSITION, but not to America, not to "the West", not to "Capitalism", not to "infidels" who do not share your islamic religion...but rather the Muslims themselves who have repeatedly demonstrated zero tolerance for anyone but themselves (the males, at least), and no regard for human life outside of Islam. They have also made their opposition to this country YOU live in (the USA) very clearly based on Islam. YOU NEED TO BE THE LOUDEST, STRONGEST OPPOSITION to them. It's your job more than anyone else's lest you be seen by the rest of us as just one more Muslim, and thus an enemy. Period.

Hey Don,

Timothy McVeigh was not spouting some religion. You miss read the Constitution. The founding father was speaking about denominations. Not Christians versus a religion based on a bastard child.

Then you have the father who 'honor killed' his first wife and the four daughters he had by her because they were too Western. He went on to state that he would do it all over again if he had the opportunity. If you want to have acceptance then perhaps acting in a manner that is acceptable with the standards of the adopted country would help enormously. No shariah law, no burkas, no 'honor' killings, no demanding that your laws supercede the laws of the land.

@ University of Chicago Student

Your own posts spew mindless drivel on a scale reserved for Honda Civic boards. We (us United States citizens, not you.) were ATTACKED by MUSLIMS!!!!

You have the gall to lecture us AMERICANS on angry societal posts.

The Islamic turds and Muslims foot lickers will rule the day we AMERICANS take a page from their book and thrash them with it.

GTFO.

Fleeced, your rant was irrational, pointless, and without value. If it was your intention to showcase your hateful ignorance on a public forum for the purpose of embarrassing yourself, you succeeded.

Shame.

The terrorist Muslims, a decided minority of the very large Muslim population, attacked the United States on 9/11/2001 and since then the United States has turned on its own citizens based on their religion, spent $2 trillion on wars and $10's of billions on airport shoe inspections, strip searches of old men and women, among others, and allowed law enforcement agencies to violate the rights and freedoms of countless American citizens by listening in to conversations without warrant, and eavesdropping churches and other organizations. Looks like the terrorists really did win, and they are laughing their asses off.

If they can count on anything, they can count on a large percentage of the American population to act on their fears and their biases, ignoring the Constitution whenever the Constitution is inconvenient.

I't true that Americans have over-reacted to terrorism and in that respect the terrorists have accomplished some of thier objectives but it has also cost them dearly, so they have not "won" by any means. Muslim is not just religion. Just like Christianity it comes with a big cultural background that individuals cannot just ignore. People just don't work that way and it is this cultural background, which determines how beliefs are actually expressed that is the problem. In fact the constitutions rights and processes are the result of the Western culture as it existed in the 1700's. Muslims were never a part of this or the intervening 200 years of American history. To come here and claim the protection of those rights while living a culture that is basically tribal/ feudal isn't really right either. It doesn't fit and niether does Christian fundimentalism for that matter. Supporting the constitution and the philosophy of the founding fathers does not mean tolerating anything. We can and should try education first but never ignore the inherent conflicts that an expanding Muslim presents--I don't want my children to live in a society that censors itself and restricts liberty because it offends someone's religion. We can see the problem they are causing in Europe because they didn't want to discriminate against them. At some point you have to recognize that tolerating everything isn't right and that these kind of religions do not recognize your rights or the validity of Western culture. If a Muslim applies for a job and can't go to prayers whenever his religion demands it, he cannot demand that everyone change thier schedule to accomodate him or it is "discrimination." He must find a job that fits his requirements. In the end we may also have to ban the burke as Holland has done--there are limitations to tolerance just like everything else.

Timothy McVeigh did not commit his acts in the name of religion. None of his rants were religious based. . McVeigh's motivations were political motivated not religious. However, vitually all of the terror committed by Muslims is justified in the name of religion. Moreover, please find me a groups of ministers walking around the USA and Europe advocating attacks on our citizens and governments. These things happen virtually every day in Muslim communities and places of worship. Yes, it is a minority committing the actual violence. However, it is a much larger minority abetting it and a majority allwing it to happen in the name of their religion. Deny it all you want but it is an incontestable fact. The whole McVeigh comparisons are woefully clueless...

McVeigh was a former Catholic turned athiest not a practicing Christian by his own admission.

People that spew this altered erroneous view on McVeigh was a Christian have an agenda and are clueless!

To be Christlike is the exact opposite of what McVeigh did.

Contrast Jesus HISTORICALLY non-violent to the person Muslims wish to emulate Mohamud.

Who was a warrior that went on 60+ campaigns of violence, took slaves, killed male captives, married a 6 year old aishia and consumated the marriage at 9.

He stole one of his sons wives had more then the Islamic law allowed for wives and magically always had a revelation handy for why he was above his own laws.

Ever wonder why Muslims get so angry about Satanic verses?

Most Muslims say the 9/11 hijackers were not practising Muslims.

They had shaved their beards, they no longer prayed, and they no longer attended any Mosque services.

DocHolliday-2979123

My dad was a highly decorated veteran of the occupation of Japan, fought in Korea and the Nam. I am a veteran of two tours in the Nam with LRRPs, Aerial Scouts and then a REMF. DFC w/OLC and several more badges of courage. Now onto 8 years as a DoD and ISAF contractor supporting our troops close up in Oman, Pakistan, other unknown locations and the last 5 years in Afghanistan. You Lil corn bread feed idiot I to am a Muslim born in Benton County Tenn and proud of my country. I will always defend the right of idiots to be wrong.

As Salam Alaikum wa Rahmatul LLah.

I just cant get it, that Americans our at least most of you still really believe that it was Muslims who murdered all those people on 9/11, while the evidence is there that it was your own Americans Government guys who did it.

Damn!! Your own president Bush the lying dude who is the one( with his world elite gang) to blame. Also for all the deaths in Iraq and still ongoing there where your soldiers are killing and getting killed in vain. Because of lies. You where promised Change by your present president and you fell for it as we all fell for it around the globe, only to see that he is following the road of Bushes lies. I just can't get it. They robed your hard working citizens of their finance and even rights and you still believe their lies. No I really can't get that. Thank god for those Americans who do see what is really going on and even though being seen as idiots ,still keep on talking the truth. They are the one who are trying to save your asses. Time to wake up and claim back your rights for it will soon be to late. And,..... oh stop the discrimination on all levels. Just so you know;.. I'm christian. So don't blame this what I say on any Muslim brother or sister.

Peace and love to you all and may god shine light on America.

One love ya all...........

Thank you for your service, Yoo.

Our government put Timothy McVeigh to death for his crime and his helpers in jail for life. We did not tolerate it, nor did we continue to hide and protect other anti-Ameican nuts or have anti-christian sentiment taught in our churches (well except Obama's in Chicago with Rev. Wright).

What would happen if a bunch of Christian white people went to a Middle East country and demanded respect? We know don't we. So if you want to live here, you have to adapt to our way of life not try to change us to yours, otherwise you should have stayed where you can live as you wish. That goes for all the illegal aliens who refuse to learn English and demand we change for them too.

This is our country, our ancestors founded it and we are tired of those who come trying to make it like their homeland. Police your own and adapt to our way of life as every other immigrant populations have done.

We are done having our own tolerance used against us.

Smokeytowndread

Your comment is too stupid to even answer.

ahhhhhhh benr-3287919!

JUST FYI, so you do not sound like a complete idiot! Muslims believe in Jesus too, goes to show you OBVIOUSLY know what you talking about. I am being sarcastic just in case it was not clear. oh, and maybe you should try reading things with more consideration for the cultural context that they belong in, maybe then you'll sound less like an idiot. just a suggestion!

Smokeytowndread you really are one huge stupid idiotic dildo arent you?

"I just cant get it, that Americans our at least most of you still really believe that it was Muslims who murdered all those people on 9/11, while the evidence is there that it was your own Americans Government guys who did it."

I am guessing you have never served in any military, never had the balls to put your life on the line for our great country and probably live off government housing and food stamps, because you are way to Fn stupid to even be worth the piss you let run down your leg. Yes, you decrepid idiot, it was Muslims who hit the towers and killed all those people. So go hang yourself, if your even smart enough to know where the rope goes!

Now, If you are a Muslim and believe "your religion gives you the right to come to our country, live and or work here and plot to kill Americans" then you are and will be a target. And i hope and pray that every single one of you burn in hell and Satan takes his shoe off right after stepping in dog poop and hits you in the face every dam minute of eternity!

No i am not a Muslim hater, actually i am Athiest and despise all religions. I have allways believed that no-one should be required or expected to "worship" another person or entity. Every person on this planet should have the right to "believe or not" and decide for themselves, not have it forced upon them.

If you are a Muslim and want to enjoy life and friends, willing to respect your neighbors, abide by the American laws and denounce killing of another human being for any reason and become a legal American citizen, then i say welcome to the USA my new friends.

@99octane ..
so let me get this straight ..in order for you to respect muslim ppl they have to neglect thier beliefs ..their religion and be what ?? ..and i want to state somthing if i may add ..and no offence there ..you are a hardcore muslim racist who knows nothing bout that religion or its beliefs ..idk where you get your facts ..but its total BS ..correct me if im wrong but as i've seen in your comment all muslims are an extremist suicide bombers...

get you head out of your @ss ..all religion have their extremist ..every ethnic group has its fair share of extremists too and its the human condition to have racist bigots like you to hate on other ppl.

@todsicriminatecreateshate

Muslims say Jesus was a prophet that part is true and they even absorb a small parto fhis teachings but Jesus is considered a lesser prophet to Mohammud.

Further they refute Christian belief he was the son of God and just say he was a good man.

Most Muslims want to emulate Mad Mo and that is the problem for all the reasons I cited.

Your post is obtuse and you can't refute one item I posted.

Just saying your pathetic attempt at insults was laughed at.

I suggest you actually study some writings from Islamic scholars to find out the truth of Islam the Koran is bad but the writings of Islamic scholars on history of what Islam has done to the people who refused to be converted is gruesome.

Christianity had a reformation Islam has not and in a large segment of the world still is being practiced like it was right after mad Mo died 7th century style.

America is a free country, free to not have to put up with your Muslim demands, free to protect its self from Muslim extremist, and free to not be bothered by your customs, that means no praying on public property, Christan'scant use public property for religious purposes, so don't let us catch you praying in the streets or parks. and keep your racket out of earshot. you don't want to be treated like a Muslim quit acting like a Muslim, first thing is get rid of the title that has you American 2nd to Muslim, that's one problem, another is your love for the rat hole you crawled out of you should have left all those old ways there, or if you love it so much please feel free to go back to it and let us live the way we did before you showed up. most Christan's understand that the day will come when your no# will be strong in this country and we very well understand what that means. America love it or leave it respect it as it is. I know Black people that refuse to consider themselves African Americans, they are Americans of African ancestory, or decent, or just plain American, the rest is obvious, ask a Muslim his race you get his religion, no AMERICAN is only one word! and it is not a religion and it is earned.

Earl has been drinking anti freeze again, hasn't he? I hate it when he does that.

If he drank anti-freeze, shouldn't he have already met Lucifer?!

My dad was a highly decorated veteran of the occupation of Japan, fought in Korea and the Nam. I am a veteran of two tours in the Nam with LRRPs, Aerial Scouts and then a REMF. DFC w/OLC and several more badges of courage. Now onto 8 years as a DoD and ISAF contractor supporting our troops close up in Oman, Pakistan, other unknown locations and the last 5 years in Afghanistan. You Lil corn bread feed idiot I to am a Muslim born in Benton County Tenn and proud of my country. I will always defend the right of idiots to be wrong.

As Salam Alaikum wa Rahmatul LLah.

HOT DAMN!! You tell em' Yoo and thanks for your service! :)

How come Muslims bend over and turn their ass toward the temple mount from mecca? How come the Zionist's want the temple mount for devil worship? How come real Jew's, Zionists, and Muslims know the temple mount as the house of David or Gods house, but don't believe Jesus was the son? How come catholics do believe in Jesus but many of the ssymbols in their cathedrals look about the same as the ones in their enemy's, the Muslims. How com protestant Christians believe in Gods house, believe Christ is messiah, but protest against the catholics(hence protestants) the idea of idols (saints etc) and unholy symbols and more (but don't ask me.. I'm still learning) so they protested from the church when they felt it had lost its way.. Were persecuted, hunted and killed for sticking to the good book till Queen Elizabeth set them free.. Mostly they came here to start the new world... Made a great country based on freedom from a tyranny or crazy over-sized ruling type of government... Fought, bled, froze their feet, starved, prayed everyday out-loud in the assembly in all the 1776 books and persevered to beat a richer and much stronger enemy..And 230 years later you can not hardly find one of those protestants here.. And if so none can pray out-loud over assembly. The Muslims can pray in the streets and are coming on strong. The Zionist's rule the worlds banks. The Jews get treated special because of them sticking together and being special. The Catholics have great cathedrals and a horrible history. But the protestants who only wanted liberty that had came here and started this places foundation are almost all gone..... Which by the way, kind of sounds like what many say about America (in debt to communists & zionists) And its liberties today (patriot act. rough NYPD. etc.) . That its almost gone(borders).. Why?... Again..... I don't know crap, just stuff I keep coming across so don't give me a bunch o crap, just a little help if you know.

Really? I mean really? Almost the entire government, from all but one President, the majority of the reps in Congress and many other people in this country are protestant. If anything your argument should be how can people (or their ancestors) that fought for these freedoms themselves turn around and take them away from others? In this case it is the protestants that are the hypocrites.

care

How come you don't know the difference between plural and possessive?

Your illness is obviously too deeply rooted for me to address, so I'll just stick with my question and ignore your hateful, untrue diatribe.

I'm not sure, but nobody should start praying out in the city like an idiot. It is not middle ages. Keep it secular, moderate, reasonable and modern. I think god really doesn't exist in my opinion. If god existed, people should give up all their money, houses and cars and see how much god will care, in my humble opinion.

hey wait!! As soon as we can wear a bikini in Iran (and be respected) we'll respect them here! How's that?

What does Iran have to do with how American Muslims behave? Shall we start putting conditions on how whites are treated or behave based on what some other random group of whites in Norway does? Or how about restrictions on blacks based on how African countries behave?

Or should we live by our own laws and not care what other peoples do?

Annette, if you are suggesting the police would attack a peaceful demonstration of christians, you are stretching credibility to a breaking point. After all, true christians such as the bigoted and hate-filled members of the Westboro Baptist Church are allowed by law to congregate near the funerals of our brave soldiers, shout insults, and hold up signs saying hateful things. Your implication that christians are somehow victims in this country is disgusting and dishonest.

Shame.

Adela

I guess that rather than celebrate the American way of life you are suggesting that we should adopt the narrow, anti-freedom views of Middle Eastern countries. Do you not understand that our way of life is better than theirs? Do you really wish to dwell in the Middle Ages?

Go pray in mosque get out of everyones way.

Further work hard at assimilating into society no one cares if you want to worship but quit demanding special treatment.

No footbaths built on public funds!

No public funds for your mosques and enough with the public funded prayer rooms!

Man dresses get out already.

Bhurkas are offensive be proud of your heritage but don't expect Americans to care about what you believe and if you make it everyones business expect to get your feelings hurt.

Get the Christmas trees and creches out of everyone's way.

Stop wearing crosses.

Stop opening Congress with a prayer.

Remove "In God We Trust" from our money.

Christians should assimilate into a religion-less society if you expect the same out of Muslims.

@cassidumbo

Christmas trees are not Christian the tradition started long before Chritianity but hey thanks for chiming in.

I don't and crosses are mostly hidden.

This country was founded on Christianity get over it there are far more Christians than people like you.

In God we do trust get over it.

Odd you support Muslims BUT hate Christians people like you always make me laugh.

America was founded on the concept of freedom from religion.

It is not a solely Christian nation.

I support all faiths equally.

You will find that you are always discriminating and denigrating people when you refer to them as "people like you".

You simply enjoy the power that being in a majority group has over everyone else. I shouldn't have to "get over it". You really should respect everyone's beliefs, and not just impose your own on everyone else.

You are a perfect example of how Christians believe they are the only ones that are right.

If you bothered to look, you would find that christmas trees actually did begin with a christian tradition. In fact, many believe that a christian saint started the tradition. Others say that a german man started the tradition when he was unable to afford christmas presents for his children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

Try to take a step outside of your mindset and view the world impartially.

@cassivella

Fact I'm not Christian!

Fact I have lived around Muslims and seen their behavior when they are the majority.

They are the first group of people to stomp personal freedom and liberty prosecute you for open expression or slit your throat for openly saying the truth about Mad Mo.

They are so biggotted there are parts of France non Muslims dare not tread and the Police will only go in under HEAVY excort.

Get a clue you my little liberal friend have no clue what its really like.

Ask the Copts in Egypt how well they have faired!

Fact people used Pine trees for a variety of things to include druid ceremonies long before Christ was born.

You might just want to study how well people have faired where Islam goes and bangs heads with anyone who believes in another religion or even different flavor of Islam.

Religion of peace my ass.

Please don't try and pull the livber

benr

You are so full of hate that it blinds you to reality.

I too have lived in countries that are Muslim majority.

Since I came in with an open mind and was not prejudiced against the peoples of my host countries, I apparently had a much different experience than you.

Reality is usually grim.

Being blind is putting on rose colored glasses and pretending everything is alright even when you see injustice and personal liberty being trampled under the boot of Sharia law.

The destruction of 3,000 year old statues because Islam forbids depictions of humans in statues or art burning and looting of churches that are a thousand years old.

My hope is you never ever experience what I have seen, what I have studied and what people I have talked to have had to endure.

Did you read the article, Roden? They said that they are "uncompromisingly American". Was there something in that very short statement that confused you?

Then they must behave like Americans. Cheer when Bin Laden dies and rage when terrorists kill civilians. And be tolerant of all non-criminals.

How can a muslum be "uncompromisingly American", or any other country when their holy books say that their only allegence will be to Allah.

SPARTAN

Some Muslims cheered. Was it THESE Muslims? Can you prove that? Was it unconstituional cheering or foreign cheering? Why should these people be judged by the actions of others. Should all Christians be judged by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?

What I'm saying is that if you're a Muslim and you act like an American, it would be wrong to keep you under watch. On the other hand, if you refuse to integrate with society, there's plenty of reason to suspect that there's something wrong with you.

I know how about openly praying as a christian, Hindu or bhuddist in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, Egypt, libya, Somalia and darn near any other Muslim run country and see what happens to you.

If the what?

Well said, Baldman. Excellent insights. Thanks.

Well-said, indeed. The thing is, there's no point in criticizing Muslims for being Muslim, denigrating them, or making them feel defensive. In my belief, atheism is a natural evolution from being religious; but let's not create a situation where people feel defensive about it and hunker down. Just leave them alone, let them do as they please, and it will come naturally.

Baldman

You believe in denying Constitutional rights to Americans solely based on their religious affiliation - not because of any misdeeds on their part. Therefore you should denied your freedom and rights ...... let's just say our reason is because you are bald.

My username gives a false impression of my age. I'm in my early 20's and I'm not bald yet. I chose it because I anticipate that I probably will be. Now if you want to make a better argument, you could consider the fact that I'm short (5'5). I can't seem to get any dates and I'm sexually frustrated. If my circumstances don't change sometime soon, I may very well go nuts.

Keep my dating life in your prayers will you? Thanks!

As to the point you raised, I don't actually disagree with you and I hate it as much as you do. Common sense, however, dictates that this is a necessary evil we'll just have to live with. If you have a better way of finding radical Muslims that doesn't involve spying in Muslim neighborhoods, I'm sure the authorities will appreciate your insights.

Everyone is now under survilience!

There is a spy grid set into place.

Onstar.

Facebook

Google

They have been shunting entire fiber pipes into data wharehouses for years.

Track Trace and database.

Keyword searches!

Carnivore

Operation sockpuppet

Fight the smears

Attackwatch

Patriot act round 3

UN agenda 21

Government/school spying on supplied laptops.

License plate readers on the side of roads.

Microphones going in streetlights.

Warrentless Cell phone tapping to include embedding gps cords in all pictures and the ability to know exactly where and when you are somewhere.

the list is endless!

Paranoid, much? I hate to clue you in but the federal government is a disorganized mess! Unless you are going out of your way to get noticed, it's unlikely they could give a rats ass what you do with your time.

The day I hear the muslim people that they are going to respect me as a catholic, and because of my religion I should be killed unless I convert to islam, the day I do not hear anymore the islamic priests calling for a war against the christians or any other religion then I am going to respect them but I am not going to do while the islam is calling and doing the killing because of my religion. As someone said in another post if you want to be respected then respect.

@mtnbikerZom

The arguement put forward by these muslims is valid in that they are being watched is as everyone else there is nothing special going in in that.

The fact that you are not bothered by the amount of data mining going on proves that you are either a mindless zombie, completely clueless or part of operation sockpuppet to spread disinformation.

Paranoid is not the same as aware.

They're just doing the "tebow", after a winning 4th quarter drive!

hehe you can hardly call a state secular when it's a requirement to be christian to become president. Where it says "In god we trust" on the currency. It might say that state and church should be separate in documents but when in reality it really isn't. Then a state isn't secular my friend. sorry to say.

They are expressing their freedom of their religion - your opinion of how they go about doing it makes little or no difference at all.

I don't really view Tim Tebow's prayers on the field very positively either. It kind a looks idiotic though to a certain level to be honest.

Does one do the "tebow", before or after sex?

My point is hold a banner, speak on a microphone, wear a suit and jacket and be respectable, instead of praying, lying, bringing out a blanket is just not very modern in my opinion.

@Frans, Im sorry, there is no such requirement, and it actually says that a persons Religion cannot be a test for Public Office. In fact im sure that if you would take time to research, you would find a few Atheist in Congress, a Few Agnostics, a Few Christians, a Few Jews, and some who claim none of the above.

The money phrase was not added until the 1950's for In GOD we Trust. Several of the founding fathers wanted no reference to personal beliefs (religion) added to the constitution, due to the Corruption of the Church that owned the Crown in most places they previously came from, they concluded the seperation of CHURCH RUN STATE, vs PEOPLE RUN STATE. Not the seperation of the beliefs from their own lives or those of others, just from being a litmus test for a public office, to prevent corruption.

Of course that system has failed, because It seems that the poli (many) tic (blood sucking animal) ians (snake oil salesmen) still take bribes, whether it was the church, the bank, the wealthy, or the corporations.

This is a protest in the way that Ghandi did it. It is a quiet way of making a profound statement. It also tend to not get people pissed off at you, except for all the ethnocentrists who simply hate anything looking like it has to do with Muslims or Arab/Persian-looking peoples.

I find it much more moving than OWS people carrying signs and jumping out in traffic.

I'm not a fan of organized religion, but I respect their right to pray.

A people can be modern, respectable, not fanatical, not foolish, not idiotic, and "be a man" and still be a Muslim.

I have a feeling that tom111, whose words I just chose, would have chosen less prejudicial words if the prayers had been "christian looking" instead. He simply fears what is different.

Well said, Cassivella. I agree completely.

mr R I like how you took time to write me a long response but maybe I wasn't clear enough. It is impossible to become president without being christian. You cannot become elected, not enough people will vote for you. How is a nation secular when that is the case?

And also about the money, I'm very well aware when it was added and why. Soviet had state enforced atheism. It was very symbolic and that it remains on the dollar bill is still very symbolic but in another way. Most things you say very true but the fact still remains that it's there. I think my post is still valid.

I'm not a big fan of ANYONE causing a public scene really---they are taking up the middle of Times Square and should have been forced to disperse like any other disruptive group would have been. I personally love the sound of a muezzin (hope I spelled that right) calling the people to prayer, and have nothing against devout people of any peaceful religion. I dislike those so-called Christian idiots who were picketing soldiers' funerals in the name of "religion" a whole lot more but seriously, stop being a disruption. You kneel in front of on-coming traffic and things are bound to get bad in a hurry.

I am not pro organized religion, but have always felt if it helped somebody by lifting them up, then I support them whatever the religion. But I am really, really get sick of hearing about the rights of everybody concerning their religion. Whatever your religion, please stop wearing it on your sleeve. Go to your church and pray all your want or at home, but stop driving the rest of us nuts with your belief system.

tom

just not very modern in my opinion.

You don't have a very modern opinion, in my opinion.

Frans,......."in God we trust" on currency has nothing whatsoever to do with Christians. Nowhere in the US Constitution, Declaration of Independence, on currency or any other legal federal document is there a reference to Jesus Christ, only God, which many of the Constitution's framers believed in as Deists.

We must believe that there is no God. To many people have died to prove that their God is better than your God. If religion was not a problem than the color of your shoes would take it's place. Up hill battle which will go on forever.
I believe that the more you make of this extremist garbage the worse it gets. Fuggetaboutit. Ain't worth the trouble. Do something creative.

hey Richard, you must believe what? lets talk about your last sentence. Do something creative. Go make your own dirt, then get back to me. Until then, Im sticking with the CREATION, and the CREATOR.

It's not?

Wait, what? There is no reason to discriminate against people because of their religion.

My name should remind every one of your history (burn churches killing none Muslims) how about if you treated same way. your Allah award you to kill us that's why we should keep our eyes open watching every move, If you unable to be human please leave to Islamic country to gain your freedom.

Copts a discriminated murdered people in danger of becoming extinct in Egypt.

Dhimmitude is not a life anyone should ever be forced to live.

The untold thousands of citizens of Iraq that Bush sentenced to death along with thousands of American soldiers make NYC look less important to the world.

yes because the police never bothered anyone without reason before...right? right?...right?

Wow, are you calling all Muslims "animals"?

It's rare.

Sensible

You are the one acting inhuman here.

What exactly is wrong with some people quietly worshiping the same god you probably worship?

This is certainly less disturbing to the public than the OWS protests.

Paul-3964318; Amen!!!

Too bad you do not pay attention to any of the happenings around the world. I'm pretty sure that the guy in Finland wasn't Muslim. The fact is you don't have to be Muslim to be a terrorist. I'm pretty sure the KKK organization were all terrorists as well, obviously not Muslim. One needs to be open and tolerant to others that differ in opinion. Thus less blood will be shed due to ignorance.

Not all muslims are terrorists. All Terrorists are muslims. Hard to keep it straight.

The guy in Finland (Anders Behring Breivik) was a right-wing, conservative christian who murdered people because he felt his government was letting in too many Muslims.

Anders behring breivik commited is from norway and commited his act there. Actually he killed not only gov workers but also kids at youth camp. The kids were all politically active and where there since the camp was funded and run by the youth organisation tied to the socialst party.

@kristy3 not all terrorists are muslim. obviously. But you'd think that wouldn't you? Actually "muslim" terrorist acts are a less occurance than other religiously "tied" terrorist acts. (but this isn't what fox news make it seem like) yeah I know weird huh..? (but they say they're fair and balanced) yeah they say that, don't they... (I'm confused) I know you are.

food for thought: loonwatch (.) com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

No, they most likely would burn us alive and laugh very hard about it, just like they did in Afganistan at one time, particularly when they did crazy things like blow up 1500 year old Buddah statues - idiots.

that wasn't your average muslim. But you don't mind a little generalizing now do you? Do you actually know what group that blew up the statues? Do you know anything about afghanistan at all?

We all know everything there is to know about Afghanistan; the group that blew up the irreplaceable Buddah statues was assisted and recognized as a formal government by our "allies", the Pakistanis.

Then why didn't Native Americans interfere with christian worship?

Your argument boils down to "we were here first, you should do it our way", yet it isn't true.

Nearly a third of the US does not consider itself christian.

Of the ones that do, few actually go to church or pray regularly.

You simply choose to call these men "jerks" because you are bigoted towards them.

Unless you said Christian

The separation (I'm not sure why people cannot spell that word even with spell check) of church and state as outlined in the Constitution simply means that the government cannot choose to favour one religion over the other.

By not allowing Muslims to pray on state/city property when they have allowed thousands of christian prayers would have been favouring christians.

Cassivella,

No,

The separation of church and state means that the goings on of the state cannot be, in any way shape or form, influenced by the politics of any church or religion. And the same holds true in reverse. Because in those days the people who wrote the constitution came from a land where religion held sway over the ruling party.

And as far as people praying on public property is concerned, I do not care as long as I can get to where I am going. And this incident, is not religious, it's political.

I would like to see anyone go to a country where Islam is the only religion and bring a Bible.

Then I would like to see any person of the Islamic faith come to the United States and bring a Koran.

Describe to me what would happen in these situations.

Do you even know? And if you do then you will understand what is going on here.

Atheist - you can be whatever you want to be and I can be whatever I want to be, you respect me and I will respect you, I will not tell you what you can do as long as you do not harm others and you do not tell me what I can do as long as I do not harm another.

This is of what I was talking, the First Amendment, from Wikipedia. This is what our First Amendment promises us.

The Establishment Clause is the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating,

“
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
”

Together with the Free Exercise Clause ("... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"), these two clauses make up what are called the "religion clauses" of the First Amendment.^[1]

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. The first approach is called the "separation" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferential" or "accommodation" interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.

You are almost correct, They do not stand. If you say religion 1000 times it will lose it's meaning, then they will be able to stand up.If a large group of people just marched right through the mob while they are supposedly praying, Sht would hit the fan. Why am I waisting my time with this junk. I am going to watch a good movie.

Well, christianity teaches hate.

It is probably the only modern monotheistic, yet non-henotheistic, religion.

What that means is it is the only religion that exists that not only believes in one god, but also tells other religions that their gods are not gods.

Jews believe in the same god, yet they respect that other religions' deities may be worthy of worship (by other people).

Muslims at least believe that Christians and Jews might go to heaven.

But for Christians, only the christian god could possibly be worthy of worship. Every other "god" is a demon, and, therefore, all its followers are worshipers of Satan.

If you don't believe in a god at all, then christianity says not only are you going to hell, but you are ignorant and deceived.

Plus, if you don't believe, then christians are forced by their religion to try and impose their own beliefs upon you, thus disrespecting your right to believe as you choose (and possibly disrespecting several thousand years of cultural history at the same time).

So, in sum, christians believe that they are the only ones who are right.

So, it really doesn't surprise me when I see Christians come into forums spouting their ignorant hate. It's how they've been brainwashed by their church.

Wow, Cassivella. I've been reading some of your posts, and am very impressed. I had never heard the part about Christians being non-henotheistic, and did not know what it even meant (and I'm a very well read person, with multiple college degrees . . . and a non-Christian).

Thank you for the excellent, intelligent, non-confrontational postings.

P.S. Using 'then' when 'than' should be used, and vice-versa, is one that gets to me, but I just have to laugh at the incorrect usage of 'your', and 'you're', or 'there', 'their', and 'they're'.

. . . and then there is 'isle', and 'aisle', 'moot', and 'mute', 'here', and 'hear', etc., etc, & etc.

But if you haven't been raised in any of the Abrahamic religions -- from an outsider perspective -- Christians are not monotheistic. They worship two gods. Sure, I know they hedge on that with some kind of typically-Christian twisted logic, but they refer to the father and the son, and in my book that makes two.

Who,

When someone believes that their prophet walked on water, magically multiplied fishes and bread, returned from the dead, and they believe they eat his body and drink his blood - - and the problem you have is with the triune god concept!? LOL (just kidding)

I am actually a pagan. I accidentally got a Master's degree in Byzantine History on my way to my doctorate in something completely unrelated, which really ends up being the history of the early christian church.

Religion always looks different to an outsider.

If these hateful christians could step back and look with a non-prejudicial eye at how their religion relates to other world religions, I think that world peace could happen.

Frankly, if everyone could manage to put themselves in someone else's shoes for whatever reason, the world would be a better place.

Cassivella - You must certainly have a different Koran and a different Bible than i do. Christianity teaches, "Love your neighbors" and not "hate." Muslims do not believe Christians will go to heaven, rather they believe they are infidels that should be eliminated because of their false faith. Christians will not and cannot force anyone to believe anything. They strongly believe they are right, and are anxious to share their faith, however they also know they cannot force anyone to believe something they don't want too. A practicing Jew does not accept other gods because the Torah states that there is only one true and everlasting God. You have every legal right to believe as you choose, be it right or wrong. As far as i know, every religion believes they are right, not just Christians. Based upon your statements, I seriously doubt that you have ever studied either Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, but that doesn't mean you are not entitled to your opinion.

Mathew I just joke around mostly but, you may be stupid. Who in the world says I am well red and have

multiple degrees and then is sarcastic. Be nice. I hope you were just joking.

Earl-1443766,

So who's being sarcastic? If I was being sarcastic - which, I assure you, I was not - since when are sarcasm, and intelligence mutually exclusive? And you're calling me stupid? Sounds to me like you are just attacking someone you have decided you don't like. Why is that? In fact, what do you find sarcastic in my post? I am truly at a loss as to why you felt the need to attack my post, and attack me personally.

And I am 'well read' not 'well red'.

Richard,

Your idea of religion is falsely coloured by your own religion.

Muslims believe that all people of the book worship the same god, and they have a chance at heaven.

Jews believe they are the chosen people of the Abrahamic god, they believe he is the only right god, but they also believe there are other gods that other people follow. If Jews only believed in one god, then we would not have the "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." That commandment proves that there were other gods at the time.

Not every religion thinks that they are the only true path. Only christianity does so. Christians believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Most other religions believe there may be other paths to a happy afterlife. Most religions are henotheistic and believe other gods exist. Some religions believe that every religion is right, simply because all religions worship the same essence.

It is difficult for christians to see how others see the world. Most christians, since they *know* they are right, never bother to think about how other religions view life on earth and the afterlife.

All you have to do is read the comments on a story such as this and you can easily see how amazingly ignorant most of the christians are. Their posts are full of hate, they are full of lies they have been brainwashed with, and they simply scream ignorance.

This is why the rest of the world hates us. Few Americans ever bother to wonder how their peers in different cultures live their day to day lives. The vast majority of these ignorant christians have never set foot in a country other than the US, and if they did, they simply traveled to somewhere where the people look and act exactly as they do.

Instead, they listen to hate speech and decide that every Muslim is really just a terrorist waiting to kill Americans.

Travel is the cure for bigotry and hatred.

Have a coffee with a Muslim and ask him/her questions. He/she will be happy to tell you about the religion, along with any cultural additions such as way of dress and cuisine.

The vast majority of these christian bigots have never bothered to meet a Muslim. The only ones they "know" are the terrorist from 9/11.

Ignorant and stupid is a bad way of going through life.

Again, Cassivella, an excellent post. I completely agree with it, and commend your insights. Keep it up.

Personally, I've been to over 16 different countries, and completely agree with your statement about travel.

Thanks, Matthew.

I grew up in a household that was what I consider naively racist. My parents were from a very small town in Appalachia, and they were not taught that diversity was an asset.

My mother did not see a person of colour (other than the rare one on TV) until she married my father and he joined the Air Force and they moved to base housing. My mother thought that African-American babies were born white, and their parents did something to them to "turn them black".

My point in mentioning this is that I do understand that people can be raised in household of unintentional (as opposed to malicious - like KKK or Skinheads) hate.

The point is that everyone is capable of change.

Living in areas of the world where I was the minority was a big eye-opener.

When I got off the boat in Morocco the first time, I heard a shop owner (there was a bazaar near the docks) yell "BLONDE AMERICAN GIRL!" (I had very bleach-blonde hair at the time), and I got swarmed. I was traveling with a freakishly tall red-headed guy with very pale skin. I was frankly scared @!$%#less, and my friend ended up with nail gouges in his arm.

However, I realized that these shop owners simply equated bleach-blonde hair with American with lots of money. They themselves were a little guilty of stereotyping! But, I saw that they all simply wanted to sell me their wares. The personal space in Morocco is a little closer than Americans usually like, so it was intimidating. But I never felt for my personal safety (only for the safety of my wallet!).

I realized I had made a big mistake. The next day, I went out with my bleached-blonde hair covered, and I wasn't mauled by shop keepers. I found that by showing a modicum of respect and trying to fit into the culture that the shop keepers and restauranteurs treated me with respect back. I even got better prices, and the pizza guy always slipped me some extra goody simply because I attempted to speak with him in one of his native languages.

Anyway, at the time I was only a teenager. I eventually went to one of the world's largest universities, where the student base comes from nearly every country on earth. I intentionally went to the events held by the different international student groups, and it was simply awesome eating all the different foods, looking at national costume and dance, and simply getting to know people who were so vastly different from me, yet completely similar at the same time.

So, I know that this bigotry and hate can be overcome.

After hearing my mother make a disparaging comment about gays, I took her to a gay bar some people at work often hung out at. She was having a great time, the bartender was flirting with her, and after her second margarita, she looked at me and said "Is this a gay bar?". I said "Yes", and she just smiled and said "I like it." LOL. My mother had simply never interacted with someone that she knew was gay, and simply by introducing her to some friendly people, I was able to wipe away that prejudice in one evening.

So, again, I wish that the people spreading hate on this vine would simply make an effort to engage a Muslim in dialog. If you see someone "different looking" at the airport, feel free to introduce yourself and ask some questions. If you mistake a Sikh for a Muslim, he probably won't mind, and he'll give you a great story about the Sikhs.

I lived in NYC during the 1993 bombing of the WTC. I witnessed the bombing from the street. I remember ghostly people, bleeding from their ears, coming out of the underground areas. It was a scary thing to witness all by yourself, especially since this was before smartphones and no one knew what was going on until you could find a TV.

The second and final "bombing" on 9/11 hit me hard. I kept having flashbacks of seeing the ghost-dust people.

During each attack I never blamed nameless Muslims. I put my anger where it belonged - on the criminals and their support organizations.

Why would my Muslim neighbours suddenly turn into terrorists after 9/11? Of course they didn't - they were the same people I saw on 9/10 and every day before that. I refuse to take out my anger against innocent groups of people simply because they share an ethnic or religious affiliation with someone committing a terroristic act.

So, please, go out and find someone different than you and have a coffee. Engage that quiet guy in IT that everyone doesn't think speaks English but actually does better than most of you. Say "Hi!" and chat up the people at the Chinese restaurant you go to for lunch. Branch out and find an Afghani restaurant - they have some of the best food on earth.

People are people. There are @!$%#s in every colour, race, ethnicity, religion, sex, gender, national origin, etc.

Ignore the @!$%#s.

Embrace the normal, everyday people you find.

@Cassivella,

This was a nice post. I too have travelled extensively and have seen and interacted in many different foreign countries. Like you said, you have tried to assimilate while you have been there, and that in itself is a very noble act of acceptance to that particular country or ethnologica group. However, I do have a problem with those people who come here and expect us to change to their beliefs, ideals, or folkways. My opinion is this, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". I don't think it is against their ideals or religion for them to accept our laws as they are supposed to be for all of the citizens here.

Cassivella... I have read many of your posts... some of them I can see your points, some I am indifferent to... but these last posts... on Islam being all accepting, and full of love...and Christianity being hate filled and not tolerant... was the most repulsive drivel of trash I have read in quite some time. First of all, I do not believe your "claim" to studies and degrees... your posts prove your lack of facts and knowledge when it comes to Christianity and Islam. Bible or Koran. Also I would like to point out to the Christian Bashers, that the OLD TESTEMENT was pre Christ...and therefore had a whole different set of rules and tolerance. The teachings in the NEW TESTEMENT are the teachings of CHRIST...JESUS CHRIST, and they are very different than the old ways...the love, tolerance and forgiveness taught by Christ is unparalleled by any other...and just because alot of ignorant inbreds that are bigots, CLAIM to be Christians, their actions and beliefs are NOTHING LIKE WHAT CHRIST TAUGHT....just like the actions of these terrorists are nothing like a typical Islamic Muslim. So your last 2 or 3 posts have changed my opinion of you (not that you care) to that of an uneducated ignorant buffoon... you are spouting trash that is untrue, for a hidden agenda which you obviously have... seeing as you are through out this ENTIRE THREAD... SPEAKING TO A WIDE RANGE OF POSTS. As a TRUE CHRISTIAN, I find your post offensive, more so than the typical anti christian posts... you have completely switched the Christian beliefs and Islamic beliefs around...and as I said before, once Jesus Christ entered the picture, there is NO HATE in that part of the Bible. And to actually post "ON TOPIC" as opposed to people and religion bashing...which Cassivella seems to embrace.... I feel that although the police may go overboard in some of their actions... there is a legitimate reason for looking for terrorists hiding among the law abiding Muslim Americans... Unfortunately... it has been proven, through action, or shall I say inaction, that MOST MUSLIMS, will look the other way when knowledge of radicalism is in their midst. I am in no way saying they agree or support it, but the facts are... they RARELY report it. They turn a blind eye...thereby creating a "safe-haven" if you will, for these radical terrorists. So there is a need for "outsider" "spying" to weed out this criminal element. Turning a blind eye to a known source or hideout of radicals, is not just dangerous for "Christians" is dangerous for our Muslim brothers, our Hindu sisters, Buddhists, Jews, Agnostics...etc etc... Its to PROTECT ALL AMERICANS....OUR WIVES, GRANDFATHERS, CHILDREN, AUNTS, ETC ETC... This is about increasing the safety of ALL OF US...from a random bombing...bombs dont know colors, or faiths...they kill all. And so unfortunately, until the Muslim community steps up to the plate, and plays a more PROACTIVE ROLE in ousting the bad seeds or elements, within their community... there is going to be a need for outside observation... standing by idly, and putting your heads in the sand, will not make the problem go away. These communities need to be Americans first and foremost, and they will not only be potentially protecting the outsiders, but their own kind as well...and 911 proves that the radicals have no problems killing Muslims too. The Muslim community needs to stand with the rest of us, and have a no tolerance policy on radicals....AND TOGETHER...THEN AND ONLY THEN... will we be successful in the fight on terrorists as well as the beginning of a united people...in the United States!!!

I am still shocked Cassivella... your posts are just disgustingly bigoted, misleading, and full of outright LIES...shame on you! I only hope you re-read the posts and can see how horribly wrong and offensive they are. wow....

Oh @ Cass... also...as a gay man, I dont need your stamp of approval to validate my worthiness, I also dont need you to "convince" others how gays are just like anyone else... I am a very fun, witty, helpful and loving person...and have changed many minds on my own. I think you have a need to "help" the people you see as below you...the undesired outcasts...and then there is Cassi....to the rescue...to right the wrongs and educate us all with your endless knowledge, its not proper to hate the underdog...but it is ok if you lie and degrade a group... because you...unlike the rest, are all knowing.... puke!

Your prob. one of those straight girls that comes to our bars to watch the drag shows and entertain your friends with your "DIVERSE" lifestyle... and wonderful gay friends... gross.... its people like you I avoid at all cost...you are not doing me a favor by "approving" of my sexuality...your opinion validates NOTHING sweetie, I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and ask yourself...WHY do you choose to fight for a groups rights...and attack anothers...and why are you more competent and all knowing than others... your last post showed me that you think very highly of yourself... and tend to look down on these other groups that are "picked on" and being that you so smart, as you mention in most every post, you decide to be our martyr... our spokesman... Do me a favor... dont "save the gays" we dont need your approval, or your help connecting with people. And my guess is the Muslims dont either. Your pathetic...

I think you've completely missed my point.

I mentioned going to a gay bar simply to show how easily a biased person (my mother) can change once she was actually introduced to someone against whom she was biased. I don't believe I made any effort to "save the gays". I was simply trying to open my mother's mind to the real world, of which gays are a part.

I went to a gay bar because it was within walking distance of both my home and my work during college. Most of the people with whom I was friendly at work would go to this bar, and I also had been quite active with HRC and other LGBT groups in college, as I was introduced through my friends.

I see nothing wrong with straight people being friends with gays. It's a completely natural process, and I certainly am not going to choose or not choose to be friends with someone due to their sexual identity. As someone with a bachelor's degree in Theatre, I went to school with a more diverse than average class of students. We were also a rather small, close group, and I am pleased to call most of them my friends. As my friends, the causes for which they fight are also close to me, and I have made them my own as well. However, I have no Messiah complex.

Although married to someone of the opposite sex for nearly 13 years, I still self-identify as part of the LGBT spectrum. I have dated and "fallen in love" with people of both genders, though, mostly by accident, the person with whom I choose to live my life happens to be of the opposite sex. If you choose to be exclusive as to whom you wish to allow that designation, that is truly your own problem.

And I am not sure how exactly you arrived at the conclusion that I feel that others are beneath me, unless you are simply intimidated by women who are more educated about the topic being discussed. It is hard for most Christians to accept that someone can be educated about their religion and yet not be a believer.

Religion and its ingrained bigotry is certainly a relevant topic here, as at least half of the posts are from Christians preaching hate against Muslims.

I recognise that Jesus' teachings were those of love, but that is not what his supposed followers are showing the world. And to deny the non-henotheitic-ness of Christianity is to deny the religion itself - it is impossible to be a Christian without demonizing other religions.

I have also not said that Islam was loving and all-accepting. I've simply tried to say that Islam is really no different than Christianity, and that it may even be more inclusive.

I am part of a religious minority. That is the reason I speak up when another religious minority is being attacked. If we don't speak up for our collective rights, then I don't believe we could expect any support the next time my minority group is attacked by the majority.

It's a rather simple philosophy. Respect others. Work to improve communication between different cultures. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. Don't stereotype people.

I'm not sure with what part of that you have a problem.

I have a problem with your willingness to attack Christians with such ease, and coddle a religion that belittles womans rights, approves of honor killings and multiple wives, and as women being second class citizens. I think its appalling that you claim to be a strong independent woman, while defending a group of people that would turn on you in a second... and also take a group of ignorant people that "claim" to be Christians and proclaim that Christ himself is part of that hate and ignorance...I also think that you calling me unaccepting as a Christian toward others insulting... although I do not agree with 90% of Islamic doctrine...I most certainly do not hate those who choose to do so...I do not wish them harm, and only wish for all our sakes that as HUMANS first and foremost, that when they hear of or witness acts of radicalism, they would be more willing to "out" that behavior to the authorities...for ALL OUR SAFETY, and there by eliminating the need for aggressive "spying" as it is called. Also, I am an HRC supporter, moveon supporter (except i fought against the jena6....that was a group of people like you) as well as involved with many other charities and womans rights gay rights and Christian charities... and am NOT threatened by anyone... especially someone like you who chooses to side with the minority SOLELY BASED ON THEIR MINORITY STATUS...NOT BASED ON WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG.... people like you sadden me...you choose your causes for the WRONG REASONS...being a minority or being called out for poor behavior, does not mean you should champion a cause... you need to evaluate yourself and what you stand for...I think you are a hypocrite Christian hater for no other reason, than they are the majority, and if you took the time to get to know true Christians you would find we are NOT what you claim us to be. In fact these posts are out of character for me...I dont like to be nasty to people, but your comments struck me in a way that made me hurt, angry and furious... I have asked for forgiveness for my harsh words to you, but I stand by the basic core message to you and about you and your type...the ones that side with the underdogs because they are underdogs...that is not a valid reason to stand up FOR ANY GROUP...what is right and wrong... fair or unfair... the fact that you embrace Islamic ways towards woman, over Christian values shows you have no clue what you are talking about... and as for education...a BA in theatre hardly qualifies you to be a religious philosopher... as my BFA doesnt either, but then again...I dont profess to be all knowing on all matters of faith... and I also dont care who worships what, i judge them on how they treat me..and others..how they carry themselves in the world, and if they give more than they take...that is more important to me than ANYONES FAITH.

I hope one day you will see how silly you are, I do think you have good intentions.. and a good heart, but you are misguided, and take sides with issues for all the wrong reasons

I will also stop posting against you, as that wasnt my inital intent, I certainly didnt plan on comming off as trashing you...personally....just you views....as I feel they are not fair, or just... so I am sorry I made it a bit personal. I too have many faults and work hard at changing them... I only hope you reconsider your invalid hate toward Christ and Christianity... hate the wayward "so-called" christians...as I too dislike them, they bring shame to the Glory of Christ Jesus...but try to remember that those actions are human, not divine, just as the terrorists actions were human, NOT divine... dont place a loving religion on unneven playing fields, and try to see the bad behavior for what it is... As a gay man, it would be very easy for me to hate Christianity...but I am blessed to see beyond the hate and to its source, and its source is always a hate filled human....NOT GOD.

You know, there aren't any Muslims on this thread threatening Christians with death or deportation, so there's no reason to defend christians here.

I have lived in Islamic countries, and I have never had anyone treat me with anything other than respect. Of course, I treated them with respect.

In this debate, I side with the Muslims as they are simply having a legal, peaceful demonstration and because of this, people are threatening to kill them. I think the side of the Muslims is right, not the side of the Christians who want to kill the Muslims. I don't know what your idea of right and wrong is.

Perhaps, you "true christians" should be speaking out against and reigning in these christians who are preaching hate and violence (gee, why does that sound familiar?).

I treat people as they act. If they call themselves christian, use the bible, and preach hate, I will turn their tools against them.

It is not my problem to weed out "true" christians from not.

The religion itself is exclusive. The religion does not accept other deities. These are facts. To deny these facts is to not be a christian. I'm sorry your religion is not accepting of others. But, it is like that, and I do not need to apologize for bringing the facts to light.

I have a BFA in Theatre, a Master's in Byzantine History (which does actually qualify me to be an expert on the early christian church), and a Doctorate in Pharmacy. I am a well-educated, well-read, and well-traveled person. I have no problems utilizing my knowledge and experience in support of my opinions and to refute the comments of others when lies are presented as facts.

You inserted your comments into a discussion and twisted a discussion that had finally turned towards acceptance into a personal attack on me. It was unfounded and inconsiderate, and your views were misguided as well.

Feel free to ask for imaginary forgiveness from your imaginary sky god. You will not find it from me. I stand behind what I say, as what I say is based upon testable truths. I expect the same from everyone else.

Do christians really worship GOD? Then whats all the blabbering about holy spirit like God is not enough of a religious subject to worship with? I mean if christian got God why bother with holy spirit matter?

Christians worship a triune god, a god made of three hypostasis, the father (god), the son (Jesus), and the holy spirit.

All three parts are from the same ousia (homoousios, or substance, according to the first Council of Nicaea.

Arian christians do not believe in this concept, and they are not considered true christians.

I can see you will continue to embrace your hate of Christians, although I disagree, it is your prerogative, and I hope it works out well for you. I think you will be pushing away some great people in your life, ones that have ALOT of other things in common with you. Best of luck in your pursuit of degrading Christianity, you will need it. Just know you will be viewed as horribly as you view the bigots on here that belittle the Muslims for their pursuit in faith. Its too bad that we cant just allow everyone to enjoy their own pursuits, while keep the safety of all people first and foremost.

I don't hate christians. I have several very good friends who are devout. They live their lives according to the tenets of their faith, of which I disagree, but I respect them nonetheless.

I have a problem with hypocrites.

The ones that profess to be members of a faith of love, yet decide to discriminate and threaten violence against non-Christians, LGBT, and whatever minority group they feel like hating today.

Cassivella,

Here you state you conformed to the culture you passed through by covering your hair to become less noticable. This is something that everyone should do when in another culture, but do not. Like Muslim women wearing the Burqa in France. You altered your appearance, this is wonderful.

And having all those credentials does not mean you have common sense.

No one here asked you if you were qualified to post a comment describing your opinion.

You do not hate Christians?! Just Christianity?

I personnaly do not care what religion you are, but do not tell me where to pray. And do not tell me because I observe the writings by someone who is not here to prove his writings to be true I am an Infidel. Because I am not going to tell you that the writings in the book that you read are not true even though the person or persons who wrote your book are not here for you to prove those writings are true.

I covered my head because that is what is expected of women people culturally where I traveled, not because of a religious factor. It was not required, but it showed respect for the culture. It was my choice to do so.

Actually, several people have been asking me why I feel I was qualified to have an opinion on christianity since I am not a christian. Many christians believe that only christians are knowledgeable about christianity, when this is definitely not the case. Many non-christians have degrees in theology, history, or related subjects.

I think I was clear: I don't hate christians, I don't hate christianity (although I disagree with it), but I don't like hypocrites such as christians professing that their religion is one of love, yet in another breath saying that Muslims should be murdered.

I believe in everyone's right to worship (or not) in the manner they choose. I disagree with people, such as many here, who would try to prevent people from worshiping - whether it is in a church, mosque, park, or at home.

I've not called anyone an infidel. There are simply many people of many different religions that profess faith while not living their lives according to the tenets of the faith.

It's always a pleasure to have someone tell me I am going to hell when I live a life dedicated to charity and respect for my fellow humans. Then, these same people spout racist, bigoted, sexist, genderist, ethnocentric, murderous, etc. diatribes in the next breath.

So, I'm going to hell for being a non-believer, yet they are going to heaven while espousing genocide.

Jesus died for their sins, so they can beat up and murder gays, kill or deport Muslims, kill abortion doctors, and all sorts of immoral acts without retribution, as long as they ask forgiveness.

My spiritual belief system expects a little more out of me and my encounters with my fellow humans.

I think the hypocrisy is clear.

NOBODY mentioned the word Hell in ANY posts, you respected their culture when u lived there...AS THEY SHOULD RESPECT OURS while they are here... but again you give different sets of rules to them than the rest of us. I am an OPENLY gay man in my Church, and am LOVED AND EMBRACED by everyone I have encountered at my church, my bible studies, and all church charity functions... they dont want to kill gays....and womans rights are far safer around Christians than your beloved Muslims

Cass... you are certifiably A NUT JOB... you make no sense, you talk in circles, and spread lies... and at best are entertaining to read, because you make a fool of yourself!!

You really are childish. And you really seem to need to be loved, as you are SCREAMING this at us. Try a little etiquette, will you?

Keep voting up your own comments as well. I'm sure that makes you feel loved.

I respected the cultures in which I lived, but I still practised my own spiritual beliefs.

The two are not mutually exclusive. This is the entire point of this conversation. There are not separate rules for separate religions. It's a simple idea: respect everyone and let everyone practise their own belief system.

Muslims can respect American culture and still remain practising Muslims. These men pictured above are not disrespecting Americans. They aren't even close to breaking a law.

They simply are quietly making their point heard: the NYC has admitted to spying upon Muslim organisations, when it does not do the same for other religious organisations. That is discrimination.

You, however, feel that it is appropriate to treat Muslims differently simply because they are of another religion. These men above did not fly planes into the WTC. I can guarantee that.

If there comes a time when we find out that the men above are suspected of a crime, and that suspicion is supported by evidence, then I will support legal efforts to gather additional information about the crimes.

However, in America we do not send police to spy upon our citizens simply because we disagree with them. That is part of freedom of speech. It is OK to disagree with the government and with the majority groups.

Disagreeing is not a sign of disrespect. It is our duty as American citizens to point out when the government reaches too far.

You are a fool because you choose to discriminate against people due to their skin colour and religious affiliation.

You are completely blind to the idea of law-abiding American citizens who just happen to be Muslim.

Your hate is completely illogical. That is what is called crazy.

Keep voting up your comments. You are the only one agreeing with yourself.

wolfboi:

coddle a religion that belittles womans rights, approves of honor killings and multiple wives, and as women being second class citizens.

You don't know enough about Islam to realize your ignorance.

Culture and forbidden haddith are responsible for the mal-treatment of women. Muslimas enjoyed rights such as owning their own property and the right to divorce when European women weren't even allowed to read a newspaper.

Just a historical fact, like it or lump it.

u cant multi vote yourself flake... and i dont need votes to know I am agreed with 500 times over you...sorry ur petty. Sounds like Im getting on ur nerves...truth tends to piss liars like you off!!! ha ha`

Considering you are basing all of your comments upon faith, I don't believe you would recognise truth if it bit you in the ass.

You seem to want to deny any facts that don't support your cult-think.

You also continue to stereotype hundreds of millions of people into one archetype.

Yes, you are right. My facts can't seem to compete in your fantasy world.

Besides, I have quite a few more "up votes" than you in this thread, and a lot less "no value" and "inflammatory" votes.

Why don't you go celebrate the beginning of the Christmas holiday season like a good little Christian - by shopping?

Cass, Im getting bored with this disscussion, so Im going to stop following this thread, Ill let you get in the last remark, and be done. When the person I debate with has to resort to attacking the way I TYPE,, my need to be "loved" and that Im "voting" (ha ha) for myself, or who gets the most votes ?!?!?@#... Its is VERY clear that you have LOST this debate, and I have exposed you for the liar you are... I wish you well in therapy, and I hope you learn to love Christians as much as your Islamic friends... we are no worse or better a people than each other...even if you claim they are better... we are ALL equal in this world, and our actions define our value, not our faith!!!

wolfboi good work! Cassivela is a liar and is disrespectful. He thinks it's fine to mock parents with disabled kids. When someone calls him on his insults and disrespect he goes running to the moderators claiming he's being harassed. Glad you stood up to him, but be careful he might call for your suspension!

LOL

It's always fun to have people stalk you across the vines. It's nice to see you again, Mike, was that your name? Did they ban your other account for life? With your behaviour, it would be a fair and light punishment.

I only mocked one parent of a disabled kid. Because he was an @!$%#. Apparently, newsvine agreed with me.

Well do you want to stack your comments against mine? See who the moderators think was more out of line?

I'm a what? A @!$%#? Doesn't seem respectful to me. Why don't you follow the same code as the rest of us?

And all I did was ask questions. You couldn't handle the answers, I guess!

waaaaah. You're like whatever, a cry baby.

Your behaviour, had it happened in real life, was criminal.

It would be a fair guess to say that it was criminal online as well.

Don't stalk people. It's not nice.

You should learn to grow up and take criticism. Obviously, since I never was suspended or even warned, my behaviour was acceptable.

I'm sure it is hard for you to understand why this is, but most of the people on that vine agreed with me.

Now, you are breaking the TOS again by coming in with another account. And still you choose to stalk me. You aren't commenting on this article. You are simply coming here to harass me.

You seem to be the one crying here. I stand by my comments.

If I'm breaking the TOS then report me to the moderators. Be a cry baby like whatever.

You won't because you know what you said to me was also in violation of the TOS. Donkey.

Nothing I've done is a violation of TOS.

And I didn't report you last time either.

Everyone else on that vine did. I simply agreed that you should be kicked off.

Suck it up. Learn to take criticism like a man. Don't come to public forums spouting lies that can get people killed while hiding behind your son unless you can take correction.

But you can't. You will simply continue to use your son like a Kleenex trying to evoke sympathy from others while you transmit lies.

Your son will be so very embarrassed by you once he is old enough to realize how you use him.

Point out where I lied on here. I'm completely open about who I am, unlike whatever and you others.

I come on here and tell people about what I've found. I don't lie.

When I was banned, all I was doing was pointing out to whatever that the IOM and FDA are in bed.

I asked a few individuals at the IOM about a warning and evaluation they had made regarding novel infant formula ingredients. Here were my specific questions-"

What does your statement," unknown biological triggering effects on cellular pathways" really translate in to since these effects may be exerted on a developing infant? Are these novel ingredients safe if there is a potential for unknown effects during neurodevelopment? Isn't this an experiment on infant health?

Their response-

We were not asked to evaluate or determine the safety of these infant formula ingredients. We merely developed a system that would be helpful to do so.

So I guess their 246 page report titled,"Evaluating the safety of new infant formula ingredients", actually didn't evaluate or determine anything involved with infant formula ingredients.

So when the IOM issues a report, and you choose to use it as scientific evidence, think about what I have just posted. The sooner you realize the magnitude of the corruption at these government agencies, the sooner you will be able to understand what it represents.

Where are the lies there? Point out my lies.

And still waiting for you to report me. guess someone is too scared.

Why should I bother reporting you?

Enough people are getting pissed off at your irrelevant commentary that clearly does not belong in this discussion that I am sure they are voting enough "no value" points that the moderators will find you soon enough.

BTW, you aren't quoting me. I have only one account on Newsvine, as I don't get suspended. I don't believe I've participated in a discussion on infant formula, nor have I referenced any reports regarding infant formula ingredients.

You are clearly a very paranoid individual. As I said before, I really do hope you get psychiatric help before you harm your child more than you already have.

So you won't report me becaus others will. But I thought I was stalking you? If you believe that, why don't you put your money where your mouth is.

You won't because you know what you've said to me is inexcusable. And you continue to do so in your last post, claiming I abuse my child.

I don't see how you can defend yourself.

You are a very disturbed person. I think that is obvious to everyone but you.

It's obvious you are breaking TOS simply by signing on with this account when you have been banned on the other one.

I think most Americans agree that denying your child medical care because you are paranoid is abuse.

I don't need to defend my opinion. My opinion is the majority opinion.

You are hurting your child.

Wake up. You are a child abuser. There is no doubt.

I'm sorry this offends you, but it is the truth.

Where have I said I deny my child medical care? My children have their shots I've said that multiple times on here. You just don't want somone questioning your opinions. ANd they are just opinions. If they were facts you could defend them.

The opinion of a medical professional should always be weighed higher than the opinion of a lay person, especially a lay person with a paranoia disorder.

I defended all of my statements with facts and case histories.

You defended yourself with faith in the Jenny McCarthy cult.

You abuse your children because you refuse to seek appropriate medical care for them, and instead believe that vaccinations caused all your problems. You are not open to the truth, and you will probably end up in the same situation if you choose to overpopulate the earth any more with your children. What was it, 5 kids? With an aging mother? When 25% of children born to women of that age have mental deficits, isn't rather like playing russian roulette all in the name of your narcissistic need to spread your seed? And you want us to feel sorry for you?

I feel sorry for your children.

Wooow. You know nothing about me. You make conclusions without knowing one thing about me. All of my children have their vaccinations. Do I need to repeat it slowly for you? And now I'm a narcissist because I want to have kids? So how many kids do you have? Is that how we can measure how self-absorbed you are?

And I'm the one harassing people?

Apparently, you need help reading.

Nowhere here have I said that your children were not vaccinated.

However, based upon your previous statements, I do believe they are not getting proper medical care due to your bias against doctors and pharmaceutical companies.

I have 0 children. I don't need children to ratify my own existence.

And yes, I do believe it rather narcissistic to have 5 children. The world is too populated as it is. Or perhaps you just haven't figured out how to use birth control?

And you are still the one harassing me. Why exactly did you follow me to this vine again? Only to harass me. That's right.

So now I'm too stupid to use birth control? I came here to see if you'd man up and admit you're just as deserving a ban as I am. But I see you're not. Just waaaah waaaah stop harassing me.

hey mfoed, i mean mike, didn't you already get banned for following people around and harassing them on other articles they've commented on?

you ignored whatever's warnings to leave him alone and got yourself banned. then went ahead and fired up another screen name in violation of the TOS to keep going after people.

you expect people to take you seriously when all you do on here is act like a screaming man child in a crowded mall at the slightest provocation. then you pull the wounded warrior card and fire up rows like this and paint yourself as the victim.

grow up, quit provoking people, and get a hobby or something.

If I'm violating the TOS then stop whining and report me. You and Cassivella keep complaining about me but don't do anything about it. Probably because you know you cant stand by your own words. at least whatever did even if he is a crybaby.

or you could just ignroe me but you don't because all you want is to whine and moan about someone speaking their mind on a public chat forum. report me or grow up crybabies.

Mike,

You haven't figured out that you simply are not worth our time to report you. You are merely an annoying gnat.

You won't be able to goad me into saying something that breaks TOS. I don't need to. You aren't important enough to anger me into irrationality.

Do you have anything valid to add to this discussion regarding the Muslim protest in NYC?

If not, just go away.

You've already said plenty that is in violation of the TOS. That's what's so sad about your position.