E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSDetroit's struggles with a declining population and the near-death of the U.S. auto industry are well documented, but less well known are the travails of the local Catholic church, the latest institution in this failing city to face up to downsizing.
Reuters photographer Mark Blinch and reporter John Stoll visited two churches in the run-up to Christmas, one abandoned, another under threat of closure.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
The inside of the Martyrs of Uganda Catholic Church, which closed in 2006, is seen in Detroit on Dec. 18, 2011. When a Catholic church closes, the land and buildings go back to the archdiocese. The neighboring parishes can come and take their pick of relics or ecclesiastical equipment. If a new tenant doesn't materialize, criminals sometimes do. Thieves often strip the building of copper or pluck out stained glass.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
A damaged organ at the abandoned Martyrs of Uganda Catholic Church.
The Martyrs of Uganda church, closed by the archdiocese in 2006, is today littered with rubble, collapsed confessionals and a broken organ. Moss grows on its floors. The windows are gone and support pillars are crumbling because stones have been removed.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
Chris Mitchell walks up the stairs at the St. Leo Catholic Church, which was built more than 120 years ago.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
People stand as they take part in the Sunday mass at the St. Leo Catholic Church in Detroit on Dec. 18, 2011. St. Leo, located in one of the most abandoned pockets of the nation's most depressed city, is operating on life support.
The second church they visited, St. Leo, is on life support. It remains an integral part of the community, helping to keep its neighborhood afloat with a soup kitchen as well as free medical and dental care for local residents. But it is among nine parishes earmarked for closure in the Detroit area within the next few years.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
Larry Finklea eats his lunch at the soup kitchen in the basement of the St. Leo Catholic Church.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
Jerry McCullough, left, gets a check up by Dr. Ed Jelonek, who is working on his own free time, at the Order of Malta Medical and Dental Clinic for low income Michigan residents in the basement of St. Leo Catholic Church.
The archdiocese has cut its parish count in Detroit's city limits to 59, down from 79 in 2000. The man in charge of the downsizing is Archbishop Allen Vigneron, who says he understands what's on the line at St. Leo and other churches.
"I am very attentive to the good work that the Holy Spirit has already got us doing ... it's not my job to rip that apart, it's my job to keep these good things going in the future," he said.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
A woman walks past the St. Leo Catholic Church, which is among nine parishes earmarked for closure in the Detroit area within the next few years.
Mark Blinch / Reuters
A woman prays during the Sunday mass at the St. Leo Catholic Church.
Read John Stoll's full report, Dark holiday in Detroit as church downsizes, and see more of Mark Blinch's pictures at Reuters' Photographers Blog.
Leave a Comment:
What's your point?
Detroit - A failed city dominated by Liberal Democratic politicians and corrupt unions with uncontrolled deficits.
Gee, I wonder if there's a connection?
It must just be a coincidence that those cities that are in decline have just a few things in common - Run by Liberal Democrats, high taxes, and unions in control.
Since "Blame Bush" doesn't seem to work very well any more, the new rallying cry for Liberals is "Blame the Rich".
Obama is hoping his 'con' will work just one more time.
You e-e-e-evil Republicans are solely responsible for plunging America into the economic abyss. Bush's Tax cuts for the so-called "Job Creators" didn't quite produce Jobs, did they. The massive theft of Clinton's surpluses by you e-e-e-evil Republicans have produced the destruction of the American middle-class. The two wars Bush payed for with America's credit card are now coming due. You have the nerve to blame President Obama?
... the point is, my friend, sadness that a once great city is on life support, not always because of its own internal problems, that a once vibrant archdiocese is also struggling ... that we live in a nation who allows the very wealthiest to thrive off of the lifeblood of the majority who grow ever weaker and ever larger as the wealthy grow ever fewer. I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s. Had anyone told me that my country would have become no more than another Kleptocracy of the few, I would have spit in their face ... I knew the great United State of America would never come to that.
I was wrong. It has come to that, and the sad fact is that you probably think that is just fine.
I guess you never heard of ghost towns before?
Many years ago, when I was about 20, I visited the Lake Placid area in NY. What I saw at that time was depressing because the paper mills on the Ausable River were abandoned. It was really, really creepy to look at. It stayed with me and I am old now. I remembering thinking "how did this happen"? What about all those employees? Where did the business go?
Equally at that time, many of the steel factories in PA were no longer the big employers. I once lived in a city in IL that had Roper industries located there that paid 17/hr to their factory workers back in the 60s. That was a lot of money at that time. The town was once gorgeous and thriving. Today it is a cesspool like Detroit. It is full of crime and poverty and falling down buildings. Awful. Sad. Avoidable, perhaps?
Rarely do things remain the same. I was born in Plainfield NJ. It was a thriving town once and the neighborhood where I grew up was a storybook version. With a blink of an eye, it all changed and has never been the same since. There are many reasons why towns turn to blight. It can be over dependency on one industry, racial and ethnic issues, mismanagement of city funds, etc. So many reasons.
What we are seeing now is the US being forced to look in the mirror of all the years of excess spending by individuals and governments and even the private sector. The debt won't get wiped out in a year or two but maybe a decade and a lot behavioral changes.
There are solutions if everybody would stop blaming the other guy, but then judging from your post that isn't about to happen anytime soon.
littleoldlady3, - This has NOTHING to do with the wealthy vs poor argument. If you write an article about the city that is doing worst in the entire country, guess what ... it won't be doing well! To automatically focus on the opposite end of the spectrum and say they are the cause is like blaming the fastest runner in a race that the slowest runner arrived last.
If you INSIST on a culprit for this natural decay, - take a look at the UAW.
wow...nigel you have no idea whats happened to the auto city, have you ever even been to MI? Detroit specifically? I was born an raised in Detroit AND Flint...The rich sucked the bloody life out if the city(s), literally. Ill give you an easy example, the UAW, a union correct? UNION, think about it for a sec. so you can wrap it around your head...the entire population of the US is a damned UNION, guess what? The wealthy ppl of the US (not all) are doing exactly to the country, what has already happened to MI but on a much larger scale. The wealthy don't like ppl who are united or in a unified group, if they can break up that unity then THEY have the wealth and power to control the chaos and come off looking clean as a babys ass while the rest all fight to survive...
I don't completely blame this depression on the rich b/c the middle class and below (once again not all) have turned a blind eye for too long. The door was left open for corrupt, money hungry vultures to capitalize on those who had faith that their gov't wouldn't let this happen, like liloldlady3 (at least shes been able to see that things are fu!ked, many still choose a blind eye). Judging by your username I'll go on a limb an guess your from WA state an have probably never left for a long period or lived in another part of the country, the world is bigger than the confines of your living room...open your damn eyes
Replying to 'theboys', yes each side needs to stop blaming each other in order to come to a mutual agreement that will benefit the country, I completely agree with that. But you can't fix something if you don't know where the problem is at.
What I don't agree with is saying that everyone was spending too much. How is the economy going to run if everyone takes the money and bogarts it like most of the rich have? With the rise of consumer costs and near stagnate pay increase, of course it is going to appear as though ppl are over spending what they can afford.
And as far as the middle class goes, the money they save goes to a bank (better to use a credit union), & what does the bank do with that money? They take it and gamble it away in the biggest casino ever...NYSE, aka wall st. And when all goes awry they simply say 'oops, we need a bailout'. Putting that burden on the working class. There are flaws to both sides yes, but by comparing the two, which is more corrupt? The blue collar or the white collar?
Here's some food for thought; The majority of blue collar is in favor of tax increases when they make a tenth of a percent of the white collar, yet the white collar wealthy who have more than enough money to withstand a tax increase appose it...Doesn't that raise some serious concern? If that's not contradictory I don't know what is...
@Little old lady tell it to the Pope,he has plenty of money. Let him pay his "fair share" to keep those churches open.
Good Riddance! These wishing wells that sap 10% of the income from so many, participate in gov. but don't pay any taxes. Spread the idea that Forgiveness is for the asking? Its 2012, and We are in a global competition , wars in the near future and now are fought economically! the more successful economy will move in and buy out the less successful, Them Chinese got Trillions and its only a matter of time till they do what they dam near did in the recession, which is come in and buy our core industry for .10 on the dollar, which they have trillions of. And part of the reason why the Cinese are so succesful is when someone comes over with a efficiency draining scheme like this Christianity and Islam, they put them in jail. We cant afford to pretend, its time to grasp reality, and accept it as it is..deal with it. OR somone will come in here, buy us out, and do it for us.
,,,,,,,,,,,, So,you say Christianity and Islam is a "scheme" I would have expected you to use the "cult" word to define both.Wake up and read some history of this world. People fail and so goverments fail,If you have so little trust in the USA a visit to almost any other would (maybe) see that North America _US and Canada are better in many ways. stars and stripes & maple leaf flags forever.
That 1st picture looks a little like Hogwarts great hall after the last battle.
Things change and sometimes the hustle just does not pay. So you close and move on to better pickings. Amen.
OneYouAin'tEver ... when they have picked clean all those below you, and they come for you ... who will be left to defend you? The OneIAms will be picked as clean as those before them.
Another great city destroyed by the greedy rich. This is a fine example of job creation and trickle down economics, trickling down to the poor 99.5 percent of the country. Freedom and democracy is being spread throughout this great nation by our political leaders.
Dems have run this city for 50 years. So, by greedy rich, you mean the corrupt Dem politicans and the union bosses?
You fricking moron. The republicans are to blame. The Republicans ran the auto industry into the hole in Detroit for corpoarte greed, quick money and screwing the customer with lousy cars. The government gave Lee Iaiaccoca the biggest welfare check in history by bailing his company out two times.
um no the unions are to blame
It is really wise or productive to place blame on any one entity? Do any of you really know what you're talking about? Or is it just easier to have a nice clean opinion to make you feel like you're on top of things?
The problems in this city are decades old and there are signs of evolution, redevelopment. Yes, it is fascinating to see the aftermath of how the city was transformed over a long period of abandonment. Now, a new generation stands to reclaim and redfine it.
Jessica Schlacter
"You fricking moron. The republicans are to blame. The Republicans ran the auto industry into the hole in Detroit for corpoarte greed, quick money and screwing the customer with lousy cars. The government gave Lee Iaiaccoca the biggest welfare check in history by bailing his company out two times."
Actually, Carter (a dem) was president when the first bailout happened and dems overwhelmingly controlled both the house and the senate, just like they were during the last bailout.
Btw, Iacocca is a democrat too. So who is the moron now?
He talked congress into a loan and paid it back, so it really wasn't a bailout anything like the recent ones where the government actually too over the companies and screwed the share holders.
Detroit is an example of a city based on one industry and that industry sat on it's hands for years - making no new innovations, learning new ways, seeing what the rest of the world was doing/changing to. By the time they noticed, it was too late. Then when that happened, they waited for the government to pull their ass out of the hole they dug all by themselves but the workers paid the price by then. Once the auto industry fell behind, the city went right along for the ride. Both the auto industry and the city thought they were "too big" to fail so they never changed their mode of business.
You don't want to blame the unions? Let me ask you a question - would you pay a mechanic $100/hr to fix your car or pay one $75/hr for the same job/quality? History is now showing us that answer. Cars are being built in other states - same quality or better than what Detroit did but for less money. Are those workers suffering? Union wages create a false ecomony - if there is more disposable monies available, doesn't the price of things go up? Are more taxes collected? Everthing gets an inflated value until the apple cart tips over.
I wouldn't throw too many stones at the gov't for bailing out Lee Iaicocca given the fact the Big 3 car makers were bailed out by the gov't. Are you saying they should have let Chrysler fail? Well a lot of people thought the gov't should have let the auto industry fail this last time to teach them a hard lesson.
It isn't wise to keep up this class warfare rhetoric because frankly even if some on this site had their way which is to take every dime from the rich and GIVE it to the rest of us, another group of rich people would materialize. There will always be those that take huge risks for material gain and will stop at nothing to get to the head of the class. I don't understand that, but that is how it is. Many of the rich today even if you took every time from them, would rise up again to get it all back. Creating wealth is their gift just like others can sing, or dance, etc.
We have 1 billionaire in my town. He employs a lot of people, but most people in my town feel he should do a lot more. They absolutely hate him because he has kept most of his wealth for him and his family. His contribution is creating jobs and a safe and nice workplace. He isn't all about charity which for many makes him a bad man. I personally look at him and what he has built and am impressed. I wish he enjoyed doing charity work, but he doesn't, or if he is doing so it is behind the scenes. The question everybody should ask themselves is whether he is under some sort of obligation to meet the requirements that many have set for him? So if the town needs money, should he be the go-to guy and bail out the town?
So if you are successful in life do you bear a much greater responsibility to anti up your well earned cash to make the lives of others even better? So when is enough enough? Is not creating thousands of jobs not enough?
Regard Detroit and it's self destruction: This might just be a coincidence, but in its heyday circa 1950, more than 80% of the population was white. Fast forward to 2010 and the population changed to over 80% black.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_profile_of_Detroit
At the end of WW2 Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked. They rebuilt and you would never know they were nuked. Over that same period, Detroit nuked itself. What is wrong with this fact? Some will call it racist but the truth is the truth regardless of politics.
The same thing happened to my city. When we moved here in 1970 it was the 8th biggest in GA. We had factories, Firestone tires, P&G, Merck Chemical, USMC supply depot, Naval air station & more I can't remember, only 2 are left. Now we have the highest property taxes in the state, 3rd from the bottom school system, one of only 2 out of 159 counties that have lost population, all the white people left. The street gangs & black on black crime is epidemic. Shootings, killings, and robberies are an everyday occurance. The police force is a joke they have a 99% unsolved rate on property crimes like burglaries. They don't even try to solve them. When I moved here you hardly ever heard of an armed robbery they would solve them back then. We are moving too soon we bought a place on the coast, my wife closed her business & we are selling everything we don't want to take, selling our rental properties & getting the hell out of here. It's very sad.
often the case with those institutions that only seek to exploit the middle class. They actually destroy themselves.
You mean exploiting the middle class by feeding the poor and providing free medical and dental care?
Die catholic church, diiiiiieeeee.
And will you run the soup kitchen? Will you feed the poor? Will you visit the sick? But you would rob them of an institution that for all its problems does those things out of hate. *sigh*
I'm not Catholic and my own denomination does these same things. But trust me, there aren't enough of us out there doing these works. Before you get rid of such institutions, perhaps you could come up with a valid alternative.
Unfortunately, the RCC will never die. It will continue to change its POV based upon science and modern culture, all the while thumbing its nose at it. It's the true hypocritical institution of modern man in that sense.
Besides, as long as there's selfish and needy people in this world, that are taught to believe that they are worthless and nothing without a great big daddy in the sky, the RCC will always exists.
Oh and, if DIFFERNET has anything to say about it, as long as there's the homeless the RCC will exists as well. Like the RCC is the only group that does anything positive in this world. DIFFERNET, pull your head out of your bumm and com join us in reality outside your perfect biblical society.
mt... I've seen your world. What does it leave a person with - living like a cow, eating and pooping until you die. News flash... The species won't survive. The sun will go Nova someday and the universe will collapse in upon itself or pull itself apart, depending which theory of physics you ascribe to. Therefore, why shouldn't I come to your house, steal all you own and then kill you? There is no purpose in life in your rational world, because the human race is doomed. Your world is filled with only materialism. You run about like ants, collecting and gathering and hording. Your existance is meaningless.
I am reminded of a story from the life of Mother Teresa...
When Mother Teresa started her work with the dying destitute she was in
desperate need of a place in which to care for them. Local authorities in
Calcutta offered her a section of the temple to the goddess Kali, which, though
originally intended for the temporary housing of pilgrims, had become a hangout
for thieves, drug addicts, and pimps. When the news circulated that the temple
was being used by a woman and a foreigner and that she was trying “to convert
the poor to Christianity,” groups of people protested at city hall. Others went
to the nearest police station to demand that the woman be evicted. The police
commissioner promised to do just that, but wanted first to personally check
things out.
When the police commissioner went to see Mother Teresa, she was caring
for a poor sick man by putting potassium permanganate on wounds from which worms
were crawling out. The stench was unbearable.
Mother Teresa treated the officer with respect and offered to show him
about. He answered that he preferred to look around on his own.
When he came out he met some of the people who had complained about
Mother Teresa and said, “I gave you my word that I would throw this woman out of
here, and I would like to keep it. But, before I do so, you will have to get
your mothers and sisters to do what she does. I make that the only condition for
exercising my authority.”
But differnet! Don't you understand that the government can do a much better job of running soup kitchens than ANY charity group can?
Of course I am being sarcastic. I've volunteered in Catholic soup kitchens before and I am not a very religious person. They fed everyone who came in the door and still do. That included the homeless to the relatively well off who came in for a hot meal in the middle of the day. The fact is that most charity groups do a wonderful job with the funds they have to help anyone that asks.
I think what all the loons on the Vine are missing is that the Church with all it's fallacies do a lot of good work. And they don't have to deal with pensions, public sector union rules or dealing with public policy for funding. Maybe instead of questioning what work religious groups do, they can take a day a week of their time for a month or two and go out into the community and feed the poor or spend time in nursing homes or in children's hospitals. It's enriching to see what a little of your time does in people's lives if you give it. I've seen people literally cry for joy over a humble meal and smile from ear to ear to have a stranger simply sit with them and chat or play a game with them.
Government can never replace what we can do for each other it we choose to do it and if it takes a religious group to facilitate that person to person interaction, more power to them!
Exactly my point. It is easy to sit back and complain about religious charity than it is to step up and take over for them.
John, I totally respect your view. Not everyone believes, but we can all help each other out. Churches like St Leo's and the one I belong to are set up to do this very unique work. Our door is open to everyone and their is no attempt to convert. If you can't find time to do the work, then please give your money. We are only too happy to take it (of course, just be sure that the church or organization has the infrastructure to actually do what you want your money to do). And if you want to volunteer, no one will ask about your beliefs. You come do the work and then go home. We all have the opportunity to help if we want.
It wil be here 1000 years after you are dead.
Looks like... your "GOD" is poor too...! Your imaginary "GOD" must have lost hi imaginary job... and therefore... he has no imaginary money ...! Gee.... poor GOD...!
It must really suck to be you.
A.C- 1213193
Imaginary? Please explain how the following events happened if not for Divine, or God's intervention:
1. Padre Pio's ability to read the undisclosed sins of those going to him in the Sacrament of Confession.
2. The stigmata of Padre Pio and St. Francis of Assisi.
3. St. Bernadette being told during an apparition to dig for water in the ground. A spring came out that stands to this day in Lourdes. Unexplained medical cures occurred there shortly after the spring started and some continue on to this day.
4. The miracles that happened after people prayed to those who have died to aid in their cause of canonization and such miracles have been documented by the Vatican.
5. The fact that the Catholic Church has existed in its structure for nearly 2000 years. What other hierarchal institution has? It was also predicted to last and so far has come true: See Mt. 16 :13-20
6. People have been possessed by Demons. The movie the Exorcist was based on true story about a boy in St. Louis. Some power always beats the demon. That power is unquestionably God.
7. Movement of the Sun that was documented by so many at Fatima Portugal in 1917 during a Marian Apparitition. 70,000 saw it. How did this movement of the sun happen?
8. The tilma of Juan Diego has a picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe that has been preserved without decay for over 500 years? The picture never been duplicated.
9. Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta's order is flourishing--yet she never had more than the clothes on her back as her possession. How did she accomplish all that?
10. Mother Angelica, the main founder of the cable channel EWTN, legs were miraculously cured. Her leg braces were no longer needed. One day, she needed $600,000 to pay for her first television transmitter. She had no money. At the time it was going to be repossessed a gentleman read one of her religious tracts she wrote years earlier and asked if he could donate $600,000--the exact amount she needed for the transmitter. She asked if he could wire the money. He did.
This is just scratching the surface of Divine Events in human and salvation history. Any one of these should give pause to the unbeliever. The fact that there are so many means that any one using their intellect would have to come to the conclusion that something supernatural exists to cause these events--nothing else can explain it. If it isn't God causing these events, what is? Until you give me an explanation for each one the belief that there is no God is incredibly dumb. It is also incredibly dumb because this God who is all-knowing and all-powerful loves you beyond all human understanding. He will intercede in your life to get you through the trials of life through prayer, if you desire to live a life based on His rules (called conversion) and you are prepared to suffer for Him just as he did at Calvary for you. No sin is greater than God's mercy.
As for hell, the movie The Exorcist was based on a true story about a boy in St. Louis in 1949. Unexplainable events (from a logical, scientific point of view) happened. What caused those events if it wasn't demonic possession and the Priest, through the power of God, exorcising the demon from the boy's body? You may be a proud atheist, but whether God, the Devil, heaven or Hell actually exist or not has zero dependence on your belief that they don't exist.
Read also about near death experience: Heaven and Hell have both been described by people who have experienced them--the descriptions of both are very similar.
It must really suck to be brainwashed to believe there's a god.
You like watching programs on Fox, don't you Shalom?
Looks like we have some wandering /r/atheism trolls...
leroy brown post 7.4
No, actually don't like Fox. But I do like using my intellect to determine scientifically why certain events happened. Also, I like praying to this same God that causes miraculous events to happen These miraculous events are the same events that atheists can't explain how they happened on a scientific or logical basis.
Dave post 7.3:
No, it is the best thing in the world to believe in a God that is all powerful and all-knowing, loves me beyond all understanding, forgives my sines and who has intervened in the trials of my life to help me get through them.
Don't waste your time with these people who don't believe in God. They think that because their life isn't perfect then there is no God. Yet God never promised a life of ease. There are hundreds of stories in the bible that shows obstacles that people had to face. It develops trust in God and the ability to show the people God's power.
LOL! Yeah, go ahead and put your trust in the almighty spaghetti monster in the sky. While you're praying, doing nothing, and hoping for change, the rest of the world will be doing something with their lives.
Suckers. Hehe.
@Dave
It must really suck to know you in real life. It must suck to be one of those people that voted for your post of utter nonsense. It must suck to be one of the people that nod at your thoughts. If that is true, which it is, it must REALLY suck to be you.
What, you think if God was real, he's suppose to do EVERYTHING for us? We spill wine on the carpet, God should be there with a gallon of Clorox and paper towels? If we don't have enough money in the grocery line, God is suppose to be there with his wallet wide open? So much for humanity holding on to it's OWN responsiblity. I guess humanity hasn't matured. we need to have God do everything for us, we're too lazy, huh?
Shows how little you know about Christianity. I thought I was arguing with the biggest dim-litted person out there, until I met you.
What's wrong with "hoping for change"? We just don't want to be as helpless and lonely like you. What's the matter with "doing nothing"? Sure beats spending New Year's Eve, insulting others over their religious affication. What's so bad about prayer? It gives people hope, peace and happiness.
It must suck to be you. You literally know, completely depressed, with the only resource for happiness being insulting others for their ideology.
"Sucker".
@leroy
Nah. FOX would normally deny it. Sad to see how people are too scared/reject the proof they always ask for on the afterlife/metaphysical reality of Hell/Heaven/God/etc.
Do your research, and I'm sure you'll find much more.
Dave;
The churches will take from you, they also give; But, less than they take in but they don't pay taxes.People pay to pray, and the 10% donation part of your paycheck seems to be unreal. Gods have created wars, and death. The poor pray and give hoping they will become rich. and or go to heaven. The uneducated give so they don't feel guilty. Confession is B.S. All churches and temples have a purpose. Brainwashing for sure. They take love from your life and make you give it to the wrong person. It is a business and always has been. Religion will never change, there are always the weak and needy. These people will keep religion moving. The more education, the less religion. Why should I burn in hell because I don't believe in Jesus? I am a nice guy and do my share in this world. Helped many people. A non practicing Jew. I believe in me.
Surviving just fine without religion. I'm sorry, but I just don't need the crutch that you need. I'll stick to reality thankyouverymuch. =:D
Another crappy city destroyed by the Greedy Unions.
Detroit is the "poster child" for the "end result" of the "institutions that exploited the Middle class" commonly known as Democratic City government combined with Big Labor Unions.
IF "anything about Democratic City government" had ANY value, then Detroit's economy and neighborhoods would be doing just fine, with lots of excellent schools and easily attracting new businesses too... but that is certainly NOT the case is it? Gee I wonder why? It must be Bush's fault.
IF "anything about Big Labor Union Control" had ANY value... then Detroit's "union controlled businesses" would be doing just fine... but THAT is certainly NOT the case now is it? Gee, I can't imagine why? It must be Bush's fault.
Look around America; check out the TOP 25 Most Violent cities in America and every single one of those cities has been "Democratic Controlled City governments for generations and generations.
If "union policies" had ANY value, then "being an American Union worker" would be the "model of the world's economy"... but that is NOT the case now is it?
So, after generations and generations of "union workers paying Billions in Union DUES" exactly WHAT do all those "union workers have left?" NO jobs... NO cities... No towns... NO Security and NO future either.
No institutions have done more to destroy America's large industrial, manufacturing cities than Democrat City Governments and Big Labor Unions.
America's happiest, healthiest and most prosperous cities are in "right to work states" not in those Socialistic cesspools destroyed by Big Labor Unions.
Or is that just "some Odd coincidence?"
WHAT parents "in their right mind" would EVER even consider "raising their family in Detroit? Indianapolis? Kansas City? L.A., Chicago? Philly? Newark? Trenton? Baltimore? Or God forbid, in the capitol city of the United State of America, Washington D.C.???
Now ask yourselves, WHERE do think all those "union leaders live?" What are "their neighborhoods like?"
Where do their children go to school? Maybe in another city? A "nicer" city? A "safer" city? A "cleaner" city?
You betcha :-)
Is it greed to want a living wage and good working conditions---without unionism the 'Robber Barons' would eat us alive!!
Without union men and women donating monies to the churches/or needy/or charity this is what happens. Welcome to another third world culture brought on by corporate greed and job outsourcing.
What has happened to the once great America? You know the one "give us your poor and beaten down, that they may breathe free". Corporate and Wallstreet banks greed have ushered in a new dark era. The unions were the only ones who ever cared about the poor and shown light for them.
I don't necessarily believe 100% in unions, but I find it interesting that those that BASH the unions of say Detroit, never make reference to the fact that the FAT CATS of Ford, GM, Chrysler were taking home 100's of times the UNION WORKER salary while draining the coffers of the companies to the point that 2 of them needed bailouts and Ford had to seriously sell off assets and worked with the UAW to come up with a contract they could live with and grow their business.
This big time corporate greed that pays the executives such unbelievable amounts of money is what has destroyed good businesses not those that work hard to actually PRODUCE the end product that consumers actually purchase. So let's spread the blame around to ALL the involved parties not just bash the worker bees on the bottom of the pile.
bye the way d.c. has the highest per capita income in the u.s. and is #1 in 4 year degrees..guess that's what
lobbying and politics will do for u. why does it always have to be right or left or red or blue? just once, can't it be
all of us.
Speedy, you are a good example of the right-wing hatred that is ruining our once-great country. We don't need to hear your fulminations. Go screw yourself.
Speedy,
You might want to research the lives of Detroit's monied folks like Henry Ford, Chrysler, Durant, and the Dodge brothers. Ford hated Catholics almost as much as he hated Jews. Chrysler "earned" his money in Detroit and spent it in New York. Their descendents and legacy managements created a good many racial and factional disputes as a way to keep the working-class in its place. And when that didn't work, they called out the goon squads to beat the working-class back into its place. Try drinking a little diner or McDonald's coffee and get off the "tea and Starbucks" diet.
By the way, each of the monied folks had the money to move out of Detroit, to suburbs, country estates or other cleaner cities they have had shat upon. A choice they didn't leave to the working-class.
That is exactly what the super rich are so good at, placing the blame for all of our economic problems on the workers, calling them greedy for wanting to earn a living wage; while all the time making incomes in the hundreds of millions of dollars. What I can't imagine is how many Americans are stupid enough to believe it. Oh well. Personally it doesn't effect me as I doing what love, my music, and am making a living and very happy. I just feel sorry for those who work for greedy corporations for slave wages, whether they are Americans or Chinese or whatever. My only hope for America is the working people will smarten up one day vote in a government that cares for its people. Norway is a classical example of such a government.
@Speedy...
And I suppose you think the 10+ year fiasco of Republican rule of Florida by Republican SCUM since Jeb Bushpig has done such a great job in Florida. Pull the Teabag out of your A##. Florida is at the BOTTOM of this nation no matter what statistic you want to look at. God you are a fool...But then again that's why people like you voted for Rick (The Thief) Scott. All of Florida (except Palm Beach and Miami Beach) will look like Detroit before long. Hell, even your home city Palm Harbor is slipping into mayhem...can't wait till they repo the rest of you people out of your homes, PH will be dead...and you won't be able to blame the UNIONS. I guess you can always blame a Democrat, that is if you can find one left in Tally.
@Speedy...I'm going to repost part of an earlier post, maybe something your shallow mind can comprehend
"I was born an raised in Detroit AND Flint...The rich sucked the bloody life out of the city(s), literally. Ill give you an easy example, the UAW, a union correct? UNION, think about it for a sec. so you can wrap it around your head...the entire population of the U.S is a damned UNION, guess what? The wealthy ppl of the U.S. (not all) are doing exactly to the country, what has already happened to MI but on a much larger scale. The wealthy don't like ppl who are united or in a unified group, if they can break up that unity then THEY have the wealth and power to control the chaos and come off looking clean as a babys ass while the rest all fight to survive..."
You are a complete and utter moron at best.
WRONG, The unions don't control the legislature and laws that brought them to their knee's. How can a union fight against a fixed industry & lawmakers that are bought off so bills are passed to gut the unions? As I stated before, and I'll say it again. The U.S.A is a UNION itself and is crumbling, why? B/c the unity of the American ppl is being ripped apart into sect's so the wealthy elitists have controlled chaos. In the mid to late 80's there was a G.M. rep that stated on record that it would drop its entire work force without batting an eyelid, well look what happened...
How dare you call my home a crappy city, if it wasn't for the motor city state there wouldn't have been the massive auto boom and everyone would be driving a foreign import (not that we aren't already b/c the majority of parts are already made in a foreign country), there wouldn't have been all the modern medicinal break-through's from the universities there either, the list goes on and on. It's ppl like you that are to blame for there being no bi-partisanship in democracy anymore.
So go fu*k yourself, you unintelligent, uninformed, biased, feeble minded, sock chewin' fascist b!tch. Your whiny wrinkled a$s wouldn't make it one week in the shoes I and many others have lived in.
Do yourself a favor, go take a long drive off a short bridge...If your to weak to do that just keep watching your oreilley, hannity, beck shows and keep your damn mouth shut 'cause all you've done so far is shove your foot in it.
It's very hard to get me that enraged to say things like that, but your pitiful tunnel-vision view of the world is what holds our country hostage.
@rickrwp - Ford was the only one that didn't take a bailout...
This crap began when Regan promoted the Christandom of Greed......You all cheered when the young corporate raiders leveraged, bought out and parted out America's industry. Now you say, If only the Unions had not given those people livable wages, Detroit's decline would have not occurred. If only we let GM and Chrysler fail, we would not have had the financial collapse......If only we had not bailed out the Auto industry......Obama had to remove the corrupt executives of the companies to get them to change....OH yea, they were rich and positioned themselves to suck the company dead...but they were cunning enough to take over the companies and ignore the small stock holders.....guess this is the new christian morality....take from the middle class and poor and give to the greedy.
Let us all hope for the sake of the world religion dies and goes away.
nn
nn
nn
nn
on
w
d
You're definitely mentally slow.
Keep hoping!!!
Slow Boy
Your point is understood. Organized religion and diety worship most certainly has been the cause of many wars, deaths, and suffering. Flip side, it serve a couple of necessary funtcions. It weaves a thread of hope through the fabric of society and it weaves a thread of order .Both necessary for survival of the species.
Emil
worshiping some dead guy on a stick is just stupid!
slowboy... So, when was the last time you worked in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. If you think it's crazy to worship him, you must also think it is crazy to take care of the poor. I've yet to see any atheist run soup kitchens.... Talk is cheap. You should be happy that the crazies are willing to do the work you won't.
Since when does worshipping a dead guy on stick equate to feeding the homeless? Are you saying only those who worship a dead stick-hanging guy do this?
Obviously you are.
How arrogant of you.
Read the story, MT. St. Leo's runs a soup kitchen. So, when was the last time you worked in a soup kitchen or shelter?
slow
It ain't about worship, its about living and giving and loving. Help your neighbor....reach out and show the hand of God by doing deeds for your fellow man.
slow boy, you're disgusting to say the least.
Oh BrazosJack, slow boy, isn't disgusting. He's probably just very wounded and angry. I won't lie. Religious people and those pretending to be religious have oftern wounded those around them. But what some don't realize that people who are religious go to church not because we are good, but because we need so much help to be good. If slow boy was hurt by someone who were or claimed to be religious than I sincerely apologize to him.
Am looking forward to all the atheist organizations that will surely step forward and take over the humanitarian work left behind by these churches they mock and decry. Surely the atheists can/will do a much better job than the "religious wackos" and resurrect Detroit, because atheists by nature simply care so much more about their fellow humans as they're not distracted by any "imaginary friend" to appease, right?
Waiting....waiting....
Aren't you on a stick yet?
Church is just a tax free business. Instead of being where they are needed most. The go where the money is. I m sure your walmarts and targets cut them big checks every year to get you hyped up so you will spend all your money on useless crap that you feel you have to give since you were a crappy person all year.
Speedy,
You got it. These same unions just "forgot" to put the brake shoes on the GM cars recently. Quality folks they are.
As you said, they sure the heck don't live in Detroit, fat Union cats getting fatter and wages that shouldn't be paid to anyone, especially unskilled Union members who don't care.
As said elsewhere, a Union member is like a broken gun, it doesn't work and you can't fire it.
I honestly feel sorry for Motown - one time a place to rejoice, now a place to flee.
I worked union once, and for the most part, I agree with your statement. The one favorite saying of a union worker was, "Not my job" and "Can't do that." It sure got sickening sometimes.
At the same time, I see more corporate greed and arseholes making millions in benefits and bonuses, while paying a smidge to their slave workers. If it wasn't for unions raising the bar on pay, the pay would be a mere slave's wages, while the privilidged few got mega-bucks.
I agree the bar is too high for most. I know a Postal worker janitor making $60,000/yr due to union regulations.
There has to be a middle ground. As for working, I've given up on working for someone else. I've had enough of the layoffs, the piss treatment, the disgruntled employee, the political games, etc. I've been working my own business for two years now, and I think I'll stick to that.
The minds of humanity are finally opening up to the discovery that religion does not hold all of the answers and that there is a vast difference between religion and spirituality. The downfall of the religions that have held us captive now gives rise to something bigger and better.
So Margaet, the same challenge to you. When was the last time you fed the poor? Visited the imprisoned? Cared for the ill? Spirituality is nice, but it doesn't feed or clothe or do much.
Truly open minds would see that a god that created the whole universe can't fund a simply city, yet allows other of his fans to roll in Bentleys and private jets.
Religion is for the weak minded, needy and self loathing people who have to see something bigger than them to continue on in their life.
Spirituality is nothing more than religion w/o rules and regulations. Spirituality is the modern '70's "peace man" movement.
mt, maybe it is for the weak minded.... but like I asked Margaret... when did you feed the poor or visit the sick (not your friends and family, but total strangers). Be happy there are so many weak-minded out there. Otherwise, people would be dying in the streets.
What I take from this article, which is short on words but big on meaning thanks to the photos, is that this city is one that needs hope. It is easy to devolve into laying blame for present conditions based on past actions, but it is very hard to foretell what will work in the future to change what is. In the meantime, people have to live, and what they need most desperately is hope. Hope is what keeps people going when there seems to be nothing good on the horizon. Hope is the difference between those who survive and those who succumb.
An idea for the Detroit diocese might be not to close churches that are failing financially but rather to impose some austerity in churches that are doing well for the sake of keeping these islands of hope open in neighborhoods that have been hardest hit. No person is disposable. Living in an impoverished neighborhood should not mean that hope should be removed as well.
Some have said that religion should go away. Of those I would ask what they have to offer that can make life better for those who have been discarded by today's materialism. Because some are offended intellectually by others' belief in a supreme being, they become not merely defiant but in some cases outright pugilistic. They would throw the baby out with the bath, replacing hope with nihilism. For the single mother with small children and no money to support them, stripping away the last vestiges of hope is not only senseless; it is cruel. Sometimes compassion needs to take the driver's seat at the expense of intellectual correctness. Atheism is neither good nor bad, but when some use it as a tool to inflict even more pain, it is intolerable.
As you appear to be saying--"Religion provides a feeling of hope" and (whether you worship something you think real or not) gives people the menatl support that they need to keep going-----life can be a 'hard grind.'
Isn't it ammmaaazzzing that the U.S. Government spent $770Billion remodeling mosk (Sp) last year in the Middle East. Doen't it make you wat to go HHHHHHMMMMMMM!!!!!
"We get the governments we deserve" quoting DeTocqville (the 18th century French diplomate)----we need to give much more thought to the type of people we vote into government!!
All charities, with the exception of those Bill Gates, Buffet, etc. sponsor in countries outside the USA, are suffering. This incudes, "soup kitchens," domestic violence centers, homeless shelters, low cost health care clinics, food banks, and yes, even nationally advertised orgs for cancer, heart and other health research, veteran services, the arts, historical preservation. Fact is, there is just so much giving peope stretched to pay their own bills and feed their families can do. Many will go by the wayside in the coming year if they are relying on us midde class Americans folks. Detroit is certainly no exception. Go tell Obama, the Republicans, your Congressman. We keep waiting for these power guys to "do something!" besides cash their paychecks.
drushalli,
Odd that you could mention Gates and Buffet, but not so many others. The principal cause of charitable struggles today are: the economy (greater need, fewer resources), donor fatigue (people can get tired of constantly being asked for a contribution), and the concentration of wealth.
As a church treasurer, I see those in the congregation who support the church in proportion or beyond, a couple of fairly well-off included. But I also see those who choose expensive clothes, cars, houses and toys. People with "good" income, who always seem to feel poor. While .001% may be very charitable, there is a whole lot of the top 1-5% who are not. And they have the cash.
Everyone does love to blame the unions... in fact, the existence of the UAW is what kept many people tied to the city long after they should've given up hope on it and moved away. People wanted and were willing to "wait their turn" to get those good jobs, and so they shuffled about at regular jobs, waiting for that opportunity to jump in and be a part of the union. My family has spent the past four generations in and around Detroit; the promise of those solid union jobs, with health care and benefits, are what kept a lot of them living in that slowly-crumbling city.
If blame must be laid anywhere, it must be laid with the way the car companies themselves--the way they went for their own profits and even physically altered the city of Detroit itself. The buying-out of the streetcar system chopped pedestrian traffic in Detroit down considerably as they brainwashed the nation into thinking EVERYONE was ENTITLED to own their own vehicle.
Just ask any small business what happens when you lose you foot traffic... you lose the business. Anyway, GM bought them out and the street cars disappeared, to be replaced by one of the most inefficient bus systems in the United States. The infrastructure began to collapse from that point.
And look at Michael Moore's 1988 "Roger & Me" documentary, focused on the decline of Pontiac, Michigan. Look at "Who Killed the Electric Car?" The COMPANIES wanted to profit off larger vehicles and government contracts (a call-back to the WWII era, as they wanted the flush of government money--incidentally, my grandfather worked temporarily for one of the major car companies, building and repairing tanks). My father was a Pontiac-brand buyer, but for a good ten years, he couldn't buy a decent Pontiac because they simply didn't build them any more, as the company focused on jittery, uncomfortable SUVs for the profit they promised.
Oh, and I'm SO tired of the "blame Obama" stance on this. Detroit's problems started fifty to sixty years ago. The current administration is as much a slave to the actions of those in the past as the common folk; this nation's outsourcing and overseas manufacturing, and the legislation behind those company decisions (note that I said "company" as in PRIVATE INDUSTRY), began decades ago and have since grown more complicated (NAFTA, anyone?). There is no easy and quick solution to put everything "back on track."
Though it must be said, Moore was there to document the fall of Pontiac, Michigan... something that should've been seen as a warning to the rest of this country... and everyone ignored the warning. Now we're all living that nightmare.
Stand Up Joke
Where were the Unions in Detroit during this time when the greedy corporations were buying out the streetcar system? Which bus were the Union folks riding on while turning out crappy cars with Quality Union Labor.
The old "joke" of don't buy a Detroit car made on Friday afternoon or Monday morning. Ya thunk it came about because of quality Union folks and the great product they built?
I don't blame BHO, I blame the folks from the UAW and the likes of them for the shape we are in now.
Stand - quick correction - the city in that documentary was Flint, not Pontiac. But the same thing is happening/happened in Pontiac as well as many other smaller communities where auto plants provided the bulk of the jobs and infrastructure. NAFTA dealt a HUGE blow to the economy of Michigan, even as automakers grew more profitable. I used to work for a time at a certain major auto company and saw firsthand how they would advertise 'buy American' while at the same time prompting us to purchase materials more cheaply overseas (China).
Unions are not the main cause of Detroit's problem - shortsighted quarterly performance goals are. Quality, sustainability, and worker's livelihoods were sacrificed to the great god of short term profit. This mentality has infected much of American business practices, and has even been exported to countries like Japan. Time was, the average Japanese worker was practically guaranteed a job for life if they devoted their lives to the company. Call it a 'social contract', if you will. Now you're seeing a fundamental change in the way the Japanese companies are treating their employees as well, and also to what I believe to be a corresponding rise in product quality issues and decline in their workers' loyalty. They feel that the contract has been broken. Yes, there is much more the American unions could have done to 'give back, and share the pain'. I have also witnessed firsthand the some of the nonsense working regulations they imposed upon the companies. BUT, I believe they saw our own 'contract' being broken, and tried to prevent it any way they could.
JF - I'll tell you where Jesse Jackson is right now. He was in Detroit this week standing shoulder to shoulder with local religious leaders promising 'civil disobediance' if an emergency financial manager was sent to the city. Grandstanding on a truly disgustingly epic scale. I'll bet he did not once pass by any of these churches, or even give Mitch Albom (hole in the roof foundation) a call to see how he could help in their cause.
If anyone is interested in helping out, please check this out...
@Standup - THANK YOU, someone with sanity that has an open mind and can look outside AND around the box for alternate explanations. I have been stressing the interview from Michael Moore's "Roger and me" for quite sometime now. I'm sure your well aware of this interview, but I'll re-state it for others...
Mr.Moore Interviewed an exec. from GM for that movie and during that interview Mr.Moore asked whether or not General Motors Corp. would dismiss (fire) workers (for corporate monetary gain of course) when [they] made more than enough profit to NOT dismiss the workers. I'm para-phrasing a bit but Mr.Moore asked if they would be willing to dismiss 1500 workers if [needed], the executive answered promptly 'Yes'. Then again, Moore asked "5000 workers?", executive answered again 'Yes'. And again Moore asked 10000?, once again a quick 'Yes'. Possibly a few more numbers were asked then finally Mr.Moore asked "what about the entire workforce?", with no hesitation the executive answered 'Yes, if that's what it's going to take, That will be done.'
As @Standup stated these problems arouse decades ago, this was all premeditated. General Motors Corporation saw this loop hole in the legislation along with crooked lobbyist's long ago and slowly started in the 'sudden downward spiral' knowing full well they were still raking in record profits...
@mr bill from oregon...you have no clue about the auto unions in MI. As much as you want to believe that things work the same on the west coast as in the east coast, you are way off course...stick to Oregon, your words may be better used there...or not
Unions are not the "cause"--------unions are the result of the unfair treatment that management had heaped on the backs of their workers throughout the centuries----------with fair working conditions and equitable wages, workers do not need to organize!!----------------and in some industries today that is demonstrated!!
...like, for example, the car industry in Kentucky and elsewhere in the US, where they don't seem to need unions? Those car companies and their workers are thriving. Thanks for the example, Heaveto.
K.Kammeyer,
Do you mean the UAW GM Corvette plant? Or the foreign badge plants? And isn't it interesting that the foreign badge companies have either unions or government labor representation back home? They are here because they can get the labor cheaper here than at home. BTW, they are not thriving, the whole industry has pretty much moved up and down, production-wise, as a unit, save for Chrysler's self-inflicted wounds.
First picture...is THIS the Reverend Jesse Jacksons' Church finally revealed??? BTW, where is Jesse on this topic?? How come nowhere to be found?? Where's Reverend Al Sharpton?? No comments from either??? Sorry to be facetious, but if this were a Baptist Church or Evangilical instead of Catholic, they would be standing on the front steps proclaiming some type of discrimination and wanting the Federal Government to finance something.....
Ask the Republicans about how well their plans for churches and other charitable operations to pick up the burdens that they want the government to shuck are working out in Detroit. I'm tired of listening to the "compassionate conservatives" (Bu@!$%#es) from the right and libertarians from the far right (Paulites) who so flippantly expound on the ability and responsibility of charities to provide the safety net for the struggling and disadvantaged of our nation. Hogwash! Compassionate Conservatism: definition- (noun) a political ideology espoused by a certain American political party that acknowledges the pain and suffering of the poor but professes that it is not governement's role to nor theirs to do anything to alleviate it.
The city should force them to tear down their unneeded buildings before they become crime havens and ruins. Aren't there laws about unsafe properties and maintaining a common nuisance?
Yes, I don't understand how that one dilapidated church is allowed to stand. The owners (the Catholic Church) should be forced to tear it down if they cannot keep it up. If they are hurting for money, just have the Vatican sell some of the thousands upon thousands of art works they are hording. Of course, we all know that the Vatican has enough money to pension off sex offenders, but they cannot keep churches and services going in needy communities...
How many of you live in Detroit? Two names and yes they are or were both democrats Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick.
I do, what of it? Kwame was a crooked thief, you can't even categorize him in any field but convict. And Young was under constant surveillance from the FBI, so if he was involved in any wrong doings it would have made national headlines b/c of heavy scrutiny from the FBI...
This country was founded on majority rule, with rights protecting the minority. We, now, have minority rule by those who buy the government and brainwash the masses to maintain their power. The propaganda has been "what is good for business, is good for the community". Here, we see the TRUE results!
The biggest sinner of all, the pope, who sits on tons of gold ! ! ! !
Any excuse to bash Catholics. No doubt you are anti-semitic because the Catholics worship a Jew (Jesus) and the Church was founded by Jews.