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The Associated Press reports from HANOI, Vietnam — When local police arrived in riot gear to evict the Vuon clan, family members were ready with homemade land mines and improvised shotguns. In a guerrilla-style ambush reminiscent of a Vietnam War battle, they wounded six officers.
But instead of drawing public condemnation, last month's rare violence by fish farmers trying to hold onto leased land in the northern port city of Hai Phong has made a national hero of family ringleader Doan Van Vuon and ripped open a debate about heavy-handed seizures by local governments.
Many Vietnamese see Vuon as a symbol of the country's millions of farmers, many of whom are fed up with losing property or anxious about how new land rights laws will affect them as the government debates 20-year land grants that are due to expire next year. Read the full story.
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whats this world coming to? I just don't know anymore. I lost faith in centralized government, the executive branches of government which includes all the police forces in all the levels of government. I lost faith in the American dream. I have lost faith in people. When will we start parenting ourselves and our children. mass media (the same on that allows me to post here) is also the same forum that breeds so much that is wrong in this world. The uncertainty that is in the air anymore is past shocking. It amazes me that humans have lost so much ... we don't have any more care for human life. (not naive to say that killings didn't occur over any era) We have the ability now to use all this media for the advancement of humankind...all I read is about human suffering. Its sad. ARE WE THIS NUMB?
Hi Fran. I agree with you and its hard to understand how it all keeps on happening. but please don't loose your faith, dont let the world take that from you. Its yours and you must keep. Loosing the faith on humanity is like loosing faith on the future of our children. Try not to loose the faith that history will change to where it shows humans treating humans like humans. There are true good people in this world (government, media, schools and neighbors) just about everywhere and for those we must continue to believe. I have 2 kids and for them and all other I will continue to believe on all of us by living up to my actions everyday. If the governments really wanted, the world could be managed so that there is harmony between all sectors, where supply and demand are balanced and monitored so that we keep the earth as a provider without killing the whole tree and later be left with nothing, but caos. All True parents of the world know what love is. The world is our child with everything that is in it. We must continue to have faith on good education, on proper housing for those on street and proper medical for the sick, this is just what we do, simply because we are human...but this revolution involves no guns or protests on the street, this revolution involves consciousness and love, faith, education and actions...This revolution starts with you! So please dont loose your faith. Keep faith and loose "hate" instead.
Faith is difficult to maintain in a capitalist World. In a capitalist World we promote greed, envy, scarcity, hunger, disease, stress, wars, killing, entitlements, marginalization, lying, cheating, what else can we add to the list.
This is how mankind tries to instill and promote faith. We create religion by fiat and we end up with a corrupt system intended to save our souls. Pedophiles and etc. Don't need to make an entire list (you get it)
We create government by fiat and we end up with a corrupt system intended to represent all of us (impossible) but instead represents the interested.
We create paper money by fiat and we end up with a corrupt system intended to allow us to live the 'American Dream'.
Paper money is controlled VERY, VERY tightly. Economic cycles are controlled and governments which do not try to control the ups and down but create and control the ups and downs. The economy is a framework artificially created and controlled by central banks people. GET IT.
Dream on, anyone ask you to have faith in whatever they are selling is selling you pie in the sky. If there is anything you are going to have faith in then have faith in yourself knowing that whatever you do in life you do for yourself. When you love something that something is not feeling your love, you are. The end times are nothing more than the end of ignorance.
Take heart Fran.. People Suck and they always Have. Nothing new under the Sun.
"Who can take a farm house; sprinkle it with bombs"
"Cover it with mines and a boobytrap or two"
"The Van Vuon Clan can!"
Such one-sided reporting BS. And gullible rubes eating it up! LOL Their govt offered them money and relocation because they only had a lease but they refused and got violent. Typical "someone owes me something" illogic.
Why, how much and where, those are the questions.
Pete, been eating a little of that"pie".
Lord Fran what planet did you beam down from?
Fran...indeed. Reminds me of Ozzy Osborne singing...."going forward in reverse." or, the novel 1984. Sometimes it feels like we are living a future-shock movie, or held hostage aboard a "crazy train" headed straight for the cliff.
That's why I've curtailed my news considerably. It'll drive you NUTS! Best you can do is be at peace with yourself, whatever your spiritual beliefs are (including those who chose to be atheists...whatever get's you through the night...), and surround yourself with friends/family and just love one another. Don't bother renting any future shock, disaster, apocalyptic genre movies...we are LIVING one. Keep it light as possible and breathe deep.
Well, we certainly don't have the whole story...but it does say in the article that the land was leased. A number of years ago, the house I was renting was sold so I had to leave. Didn't want to leave my home, but I did not own it, and the lease was up, so I had to go. It seems that this family did not want to leave the home that they had been leasing for 20 years. I can sympathize with them in their sentiments but I can't sympathize with them in their reaction....
IF you have bother to click the link to the full story, it also said this:
"The case has attracted so much attention that Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung ordered an investigation, ruling Friday that the eviction was illegal and those who ordered it should be punished."
It also says that all land in Viet Nam belongs to the state, so they can be wrong and heavy-handed with how they behave. If sounds like this guy turned this land from garbage into something good, and then was cheated.
If you read the entire article, you would have read that no one owns land in Vietnam. They offered it as a 20 year land grant, likely to be renewed. This farmer reclaimed swamps and generally poor land for farming, and through determination and hard work, he turned it into a fish farm. Local government comes in with 100 men to evict the family after 14 years, bulldozes his home (later: NO, we didn't do that!!) and the man fought laid in wait for them (must have read the Art of War by Sun Tzu). The national government applauds him as a hero, but now they're mulling attempted murder charges because 100 Barney Fifes went out there to impose local rule.
In truly Communist countries (though I'm not sure if Vietnam really qualifies), land belongs to the state (or "people") and leased/lent to the people (or "serfs". Though that's not Communist terminology, mind you).
Thus if the "people" desire it, they can take your land any time they want, because it's not actually yours.
The Vietnamese officials should not be too surprised - the population has been trained and indoctrinated to believe that violent revolution against a government that is perceived as unjust is the way to go. In this case it was probably local officials exceeding their authority to grab something for their own enrichment.
Communism at its best!
Kinda like the ATF at Waco
Be careful Ralph. The government has gotten some to believe that Koresh killed ALL of the people in the fiery siege. After all, those government agents outside on the roof were protecting the kids on the inside.
And that Randy Weaver killed his wife and son at Ruby Ridge.
Be careful Ralph. The government has gotten some to believe that Koresh killed ALL of the people in the fiery siege. After all, those government agents outside on the roof were protecting the kids on the inside.
And that Randy Weaver killed his wife and son at Ruby Ridge.
David Koresh was a child abusing pervert. We live in a society where, if the police show up at your door with a court approved search warrant, you have to let them in. We all agree to live by these rules. But when cops investigating child abuse complaints knocked on his door, he shot them dead in cold blood.
Thus began the "Waco seige". Most people don't like it when cold blooded killers murder cops, but to some ignorant and misguided lunatics, David Koresh is a hero. Wow.
As for all of his band of lunatics dying in a fire--usually, when a building catches fire, people leave that building, through doors, windows, etc. I don't trust the government to tell the truth, but a whole building full of people die in a fire, and no one tried to escape? Come on! This was just another Jim Jones psychopath, only he was too stupid to mix up poisin Kool Aid. May he rot in eternal hell.
Thank you, rdh. Our society makes heroes out of human trash just because they defy authority (much as the Arabs do regarding Ahmadinajad or Chavez). Our same society then turns on those trying to protect us. Details such as you've posted are unimportant; it's all about making yourself look big by tearing down anything that resembles authority.
Let's see people try to live and protect what's theirs without police or the rule of law. Don't want to respect a search warrant? You're upholding individual rights by refusing. Want to own illegal firearms? You're upholding the Second Amendment. Don't want to pay your debts? You're upholding your right to keep other people's money. And when the police try to uphold the law, they're criticized and torn down.
There are ways to address the abuse of power built into our judicial system. Violent defiance isn't one of them.
Hey Thinker: Perhaps you need to stop "thinking". I see the conspiracy truthers have gotten control of your mind.
AG99-"Thank you, rdh. Our society makes heroes out of human trash just because they defy authority (much as the Arabs do regarding Ahmadinajad or Chavez)."
Neither Ahmadinejad nor Chavez,is Arab.So it looks like your racism is showing with that comment.
Read a little more, Uncle Bob. The Arab street idolizes both men because they defy us, not because they're Arabs.
Koresh is dead - who cares - ATF was correct to exterminate the bastard and child molester. Interesting your trying to defend the molestation of children
They knew what they were getting into when they leased the land. The government obviously wanted to reserve it for future expansion and did not have to lease it in the first place. This reminds me of the Americans who claim to have a continued "right" to "entitlement" programs. BTW: SS and Medicare are NOT "entitlement" programs -- recipients have paid premiums for that insurance coverage -- no different from paying a monthly premium for life insurance, which is not called an "entitlement" simply because it is provided by the "private sector" and not the Government.
entitlement programs are funded how again?
There is little correlation between SS and welfare programs to a lease program. SS & welfare were meant to be temporary assistance with no defined minimums or maximums. While most have learned to make it a way of life it wasn't intended as such. This lease program was intended for them to make a living through the lease and was not due to expire until next year. The government was trying to get a head start on ending the program to try to minimize the resistance next year.
SS, Medicare, and Unemployment Benefits are entitlement programs because people are entitled to them. They (and their employers) paid for them.
Welfare and Medicaid are not entitlement programs because the recipients didn't pay for those benefits. They're social safety nets. No one is entitled to a free handout.
Hatr: From the discretion of Congress in deciding how to spend the of general revenue of the U.S. Social Security contributions are not, and should not be a part of the general revenue, they are essentially insurance premiums. Every payday the premium is deducted from your wages -- if it doesn't show as a SS (FICA) and Medicare deduction on your pay stub, look at your W2 This is what Obama has gotten people to believe is the "wage tax", it used to be called the "Social Security Tax" and still is a "Social Security Tax" created solely to finance SS and Medicare. When Obama reduces the wage tax" he is really stealing money from SS and Medicare (which are presently in a state of disaster) in order to give you, the voter, more money to spend. In reality he is really buying votes with money from SS and Medicare program which is needed desperately.
I won't go into how the Democrats have raided the SS "Trust Fund" dry -- that would be over your head.
I suggest you open your eyes or do some reading.
Gil - Thank you, you have totally hit the nail on the head. If people are so blind as to not realize what has happened with SS they deserve what they get. Johnson raided SS to pay for his great society, that stated this whole mess we are in with SS.
kINDA gives a new connotation to LAND MINES!
Our world indeed! It seems that on this big round ball in the sky that there would be room for people to live in peace. Be able to have a home for their family. Be friends with their neighbors. Live freely with their beliefs.
You name it what happened there is not so far away from here. There it was some local government - Here it is the banks with the government condoning their actions by telling the people that they are to big to fail. Cops beating and shooting people in the streets.
Government giving the banks a pennies on the dollar pass for the illegal acts that they committed against the people.
I was looking at the pictures of this home and thinking the eviction is pretty much complete. The home is destroyed and is unlivable. Then the government is going to investigate and point fingers.
Meanwhile six Police officers were wounded, a house destroyed and a family homeless after 20 years. The family more than likely was made up of 3 - 4 generations.
I feel pretty certain that this all happened due to someones greed. Was this little piece of real estate truly worth the cost? Have a Nice Day America!! This might just be you or your neighbor next week.
Our world indeed! It seems that on this big round ball in the sky that there would be room for people to live in peace. Be able to have a home for their family. Be friends with their neighbors. Live freely with their beliefs.
You name it what happened there is not so far away from here. There it was some local government - Here it is the banks with the government condoning their actions by telling the people that they are to big to fail. Cops beating and shooting people in the streets.
Government giving the banks a pennies on the dollar pass for the illegal acts that they committed against the people.
I was looking at the pictures of this home and thinking the eviction is pretty much complete. The home is destroyed and is unlivable. Then the government is going to investigate and point fingers.
Meanwhile six Police officers were wounded, a house destroyed and a family homeless after 20 years. The family more than likely was made up of 3 - 4 generations.
I feel pretty certain that this all happened due to someones greed. Was this little piece of real estate truly worth the cost? Have a Nice Day America!! This might just be you or your neighbor next week.
As our own government under the Liberal Demoncrats in Government slowly and quietly turns ALL our Local Police forces into none National Police force you folks better wake up and smell the Roses.... How many of you know about your Police Officers as in Captains and such attending and being orientated and well brain washed at the FBI Academy in Quantico Virginia and all the Radio Frequencies and incident response procedures and such coming under one single plan.. How many of you know about the Centralized national Computers that contain billions of bits of personal information on not just convicted criminals or that a Police officer in Southern California can access the driver license file in Maine from his laptop in his car...Big brother is here....and you voted for it .....
Damn right I voted for it. How many criminals do you think restrict their crimes to one precinct or even one state? Law enforcement integration is the best thing that ever happened to this country, along with the sharing of intelligence between agencies. Everyone's enforcing the same federal laws; why not be one force?
The military is finally getting that message. For decades, the different branches literally couldn't work together because of incompatible systems and training. That seriously degraded our effectiveness, but now we're beginning to link up and form a team. Law enforcement is no different.
The Communist Occupation Forces that have controlled Viet Nam since 1954 in the north and 1975 in the south have no regard to human rights nor property rights except for the own party comrades who kowtow to the illegal regime currently occupying Viet Nam. Their limited "reforms" started in 1986 had nothing to do with "reforms" but instead to enrich the Communist Occupation Forces and offer just enough token reforms to the general population as way to avoid a real freedom revolution against the Communist Occupation Forces.
Gee Kurt, sounds like the "redistributing the wealth" party we have here now...you know..."yes we can" and you can't stop us??
we don't "own" the land here either..it's just leased from the government. Try not paying your property "taxes" and see if this isn't true..... I'd find another place to rent first.
so true. we don't outright own land in this country. check and see how much of your land you own, what about mineral rights, eminent domain, etc.. Met a man in louisiana who secretly built a home underground completely off the grid, paid so much less in taxes for the "undeveloped land, he was able to pay 50 years in advance! his realistic maximum life expectancy. long live wisdom!
Sure sounds like what we did to the american indians. And it was not good for them..................
bagdadjoe, agree with your land problem in the USA but to compare it to Viet Nam soon after 1954 in the north and 1975 in south is comparing apples and oranges. You still have a "title" in the USA and can buy/sell pending at will allowance in market forces. In Viet Nam, the Entire country was confiscated by the Communist Occupation Forces including all property with an added "bonus" of landowners by market forces sent to "re-education" camps.
CapnCaveman, yours is also apples and oranges comparision as the over 500 "nations" of American Indians did not have the concept of "property rights" as known today. Whichever dominate tribe in region just took control of a less dominate tribe, there were no Contractual Agreements (legal binding documents) as was in Vietnam before the Communist Occupation Forces tookover or the Contractual agreements we have for home ownership in the USA.
Most cops in today's age are little more than criminals with a badge. Remember, law is man made, and like everything man made, it is flawed. The laws in every country (for the most part), are there to serve the people who rule. They do not have fairness or goodness in mind.
what is the alternative of "man made?"
Not sure what kind of answer your fishing for. I was just stating my opinion that just because someone has a badge doesn't mean they are some sort of moral and just "hero." And just because a law is written doesn't mean anyone should feel obligated to follow it.
Many of you are talking about how bad things are today, how unfair governments are today....you do realize that this is nothing new. In many places of the world the government owns the land. Especially in the east. This has been a cultural thing from the beginning. Does it seem right to us, of course not, but it still is not new.
The NEW thing is that in today's world people in the less-connected areas now know that they have options. That they don't have to continue with the traditions that place all the power in the hands of the few. But it's going to be a hard-fought battle, just as it was and continues to be in the west. I wish them luck and success.
Faith.... is proof that there is no loving god listening to prayers of suffering people. We need a profound global awakening that reaches the core of the majority of people on earth. A teaching of awareness that we are here for eachother and that it takes love and understanding to make this world a better place
Well in the old days they would want to escape to America, but now We arent much different. A socialist, heavy handed government. They constitution being disregarded, taxed to death, told what to eat, what not to eat, what to drive, how to think.... Comunism. Remember, YOU voted for it.
It is unfortunate that the riot police were injured in this event. Hopefully, the family will wisen up and target the city officials next time and improve their aim to more lethal shots!
Sorry to hear the bad news, keep us posted as to what happens to the family for the resistance . Anyone care for a bowl of rice and nookbomb sauce? Communism, go figure.
whats this world coming to? I just don't know anymore. I lost faith in centralized government, the executive branches of government which includes all the police forces in all the levels of government. I lost faith in the American dream. I have lost faith in people. When will we start parenting ourselves and our children. mass media (the same on that allows me to post here) is also the same forum that breeds so much that is wrong in this world. The uncertainty that is in the air anymore is past shocking. It amazes me that humans have lost so much ... we don't have any more care for human life. (not naive to say that killings didn't occur over any era) We have the ability now to use all this media for the advancement of humankind...all I read is about human suffering. Its sad. ARE WE THIS NUMB?