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Ethan Miller / Getty Images
An aerial view of sandstone formations May 2, in Bryce Canyon National Park, Utah.
AP reports -- SALT LAKE CITY -- A U.S. Environmental Protection Agency order will require two of Utah's oldest coal-fired power plants to improve control of pollution that has drastically reduced visibility across a region that includes five national parks and redrock wilderness.
Pollution controls at a pair of PacifiCorp power plants in Emery County "do not comply with our regulations," EPA Regional Administrator James Martin wrote earlier this week in the 79-page order. He signed out the 34- and 42-year-old plants for improvement, rejecting Utah's less stringent pollution controls but upholding broader efforts by the state to reduce haze across southern Utah.
PacifiCorp said it was already upgrading pollution controls at the Hunter and Huntington power plants and planned more improvements by 2014 that would bring them into compliance with the new requirements.
Ethan Miller / Getty Images
An aerial view of sandstone formations May 2, in Bryce Canyon National Park, Utah.
Nearly 400 national parks can be found all across America, and feature breathtaking vistas, rock formations millions of years old, and more.
Leave a Comment:
Haha. The governments telling a State what to do!
No, the American people -- through the EPA -- are telling coal plant operators to stop polluting OUR National Parks. It's not big government, you idiots! It's the American people! This isn't YOUR planet, it's OUR planet!
Please go find a shack in the woods to live in if you can't play nicely with others.
Do we need the EPA? Yes.
Have they been effective in the past? Yes.
Does there seem to be a whole lot of common sense (or at least an attempt at a balanced approach) coming out of our current EPA? Unfortunately, no!!
Gee Gordy...I guess in your world it's okay for you to not play nicely and calling people idiots.
I noticed you said the American People are behind this? I don't remember an agenda?
I'm sure in your world every person who doesn't agree with you is dumb or doesn't get their information from a credible source. But on your side of the fence such things like that don't happen right?
thatguydownsouth, I'm not surprised with your comment considering your handle. Pretty ignorant statement.
Do you realize that National Parks are not owned by the states? The reason they call it a National Park is because it is National! Wow! Utah is polluting the parks owned by the NATION!
I know, Teabaggers and their Republican minions are purposely offensive in their hyper-right-wing rhetoric because they have no legitimate arguments to back their caveman political philosophy. I understand that.
But seriously your mantra: States have their Republican (i.e. God-given) right to pollute the Nations Parks! Otherwise it's communism! Pinko-commie-libbie-hippy agenda to keep the air clean in National Parks!
Complete and utter nonsense, it makes Republicans look like the fraud party that it so manifestly has become.
yes brian- the american people ARE BEHIND THIS....
Brian, I voted for an administration that supports stronger environmental regulation. That's called democracy, not "Big Government". That's just a term to scare people and you know it.
Gordy it seems the shoe in on the other foot. How unpleasant and misinformed can a person be to think that the EPA was in part, the thought process of all past Americans, but the EPA does not speak for all Americans at all. Unfortunately it seems that you and "all Americans" have superior rights compared to an individuals rights and that is just not so. Thanks for calling everyone who doesn't agree with your post an idiot, it makes it all the easier for me to press the ! in the lower right hand corner of your asinine post. Thanks for your little tirade.
Teabaggers would have us believe that the majority of Americans want to live in the 18th century!
I'll take that bet.
Obama/Biden 2012 vs Romney/Stuffed Suit 1712... you decide.
Comon folks, don't blame the EPA on this. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and it's minions are just following Mr. Obama's ORDERS:
So we have two options:
Republican way - Remove all regulations and allow companies to pollute as much as they want. History has proven that companies will NOT be responsible, instead they will dump all pollutants into air and water, causing severe health issues in the surrounding population.
Democrat way - Hold companies responsible so that they do not pollute air and water, keeping the environment healthy and reducing health risks in the surrounded population.
Gee, tough decision. As much as I would love to go back to the smog levels of the 1950's, making it difficult to breath, and drink water full of pollutants that have been proven to cause cancer... I think I will support the side that will not put my health at risk. I know, breathing is over-rated and cancer is not that bad... but I guess I'm just a snob for wanting to stay healthy.
Gordy, Common Sense,& The Over Lord. I'm so glad there are some people in this Nation that believe in keeping our air, clean and just don't look at the bottom line of money. I'm from down South and "that guy down south" needs to find another countrywith polluted air and water please move there. He won't have a very hard time finding one. China, Mexico, anyplace with no regulations. If he doesn't want big gov. go live on an island. The rest of us will share this beautiful planet and try to take care of it.
Citizen911. Don't like what the EPA is doing? Vote for an administration whose directives to that agency are more in line with your way of thinking. But when coal plants are, indeed, causing pollution that affects everybody's National Parks, you're damn right I'll go on a tirade. This isn't a question of individual rights like the 2nd Amendment. It's about our National Parks. If you don't know that difference, then I stand by my previous comments.
Proof that Republicans not only don't believe in democracy but actively want to destroy it. This election is about more than economics, it is a referendum on democratic government. Do you really want to vote to convert the United States from a representative democracy into a corporate fascist state? The US has been the envy of the world because of our government, YES government, our political stability and the American Dream.
Does every American support the US military? Of course not, does that make it less legitimate? NO
I'm not being hyperbolic here; Republicans are anti-democracy and voters have never had a bigger choice in an election in my lifetime. In fact, I'm unaware of any time in our history where a major political party was so actively trying to dismantle our form of government. INSANITY!
Obama/Biden landslide 2012!
The government is putting some "firepower" behind the states words. Big business has a way of either not responding to some states requests or taking so long to respond to where they're decades behind on the required upgrades. Some states take more action more quickly than others. Utah is a beautiful state (with lots of strange folks in it) & this power company knew of the pollution. Perhaps they held out to the last minute then Obama came into office. The EPA tends to be hobbled to the point of non functioning when theres a republican in office. Not to turn this political but they would have likely had to do no upgrades with a republican in office. This pollution would have been on the back burner till a dem came back into office. Just look at all the pollution requests/waivers ALLOWED under GW,HW, Ragan & so on.
Gordy,
Not really sure what Citizen is talking about, but I do think its a stretch to say that the EPA is currently speaking for the American people? I think to be more accurate, it is speaking for the current administration (elected yes, but rather selective in their assesments)
@ldo
Really? Your whole argument is based on an article from one of the most right wingnut blogs on the Internet, and that is your basis for 'fact?'
If you don't believe in the regulation of pollution, move to Mexico, China, South Africa....
Enjoy your freedom to pollute there, not here.
Oh, I'm sure the American people are clamoring for pollution of the air they breathe. Your position is absurd and clearly by overwhelming numbers the people support a clean environment. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise. Maybe you got paid to post this nonsense from Koch Industries (they do that) or maybe you watch too much Fox News... whatever the reason you need to do some soul-searching and think about what nonsense you are spewing.
Yes, even Republicans breathe the air! I know, it's shocking!
IDO... conspiracy theory much? Get your head out of the sand and at least admit that OLDER coal fired plants are polluting the environment with chemicals like mercury, arsenic and lead. So, in your world, forcing coal fired plants to institute technology to clean the exhaust and better handle coal ash is an OVERT attempt to shut the coal industry down. Can you really be so blindly partisan and/or ignorant of the FACT that NO president or elected official would EVER want to bankrupt an industry that supplies ~54% of US home with electricity?
In addition, these new cleaning technologies for coal fired plants have already spurred a new niche industry that employs Americans and creates a new business sector.
And your information is from the most left wing sites on the web !
Why doesn't the EPA just hope on a AAA battery operated airplane and just fly around gathering up all that haze?
Overlord,
Gadz, what a goofy comment, of course Americans want clean air/environment? What's your point?
My point is that the cuurent administration (who controls the EPA) is quite obviously selective in their outrage. I don't disagree with many of their positions, I just don't want them to be politically motivated. I would not care for (and did'nt) the same selective politics from a conservative administration. The EPA, unfortunately, takes its marching orders from the President, rather than from established science and common sense. I'm just not a fan of the politics/lobbying that the system promotes.
notliborcon......
Yep, that "conspirarcy theory" must be coming straight from Mr. Obama:
And, the EPA is only using National Parks as an example to garnish public opinion when in fact, their ultimate goal is shutting down the coal fired plants.
Yep, I really like using the BILLIONS of American taxpayer dollars thrown at Mr. Obama's FAILED "Go Green" initiatives.
brian-1924638,
Well, Brian (with a stupid numbered name), if Gordy-1086228 (also with a stupid numbered name) want's to call others idiots, then perhaps "others" should quit acting like idiots.
If "others" want to say the EPA is not looking out for what Americans want, then I put this question to you: If corporations and their "ilk" were as equally concerned about the land we live on, the air we breath and the water we drink, we would not need the EPA now would we?
The fact remains, we have the EPA . . BECAUSE . . the corps and their "ilk" DO NOT care about our environment.
I was at Bryce Canyon last summer and you can smell the pollution, you can dust off the black soot of the plant surfaces. It's gross.
Have any of you been to Southern Utah? I live in western Colorado. If there was smog, I would see it. The left keeps spewing lies about the environment, they have an agenda, to destroy the economy of this country and the gas prices prove it.
Who gets punished by all this over reaching epa? The poor. Higher gas prices, electricity prices and food prices. Fact is our air is cleaner now then it has been in the last 100 yrs.
No one wants polluted air and water, but sometimes the EPA steps over its bounds. Especially when both plants are already working toward compliance.
People, I think, sometimes forget that it was the industrial revolution that built this country, and now some want absolutely no pollution? It will not happen unless we want our cities to go dark at dusk. Next, the EPA will be stating that all electricity production must be moved out of the country also. And then all manufacturing. If we are going to outsource all our manufacturing we better plan on moving the people associated with those jobs out of the country also, because there will none for them here.
Some have a view of a utopian America where we all walk around in three piece suits selling goods around the world that are made in other countries. That is all well and fine, but how long until the rest of the world cuts out the middleman?
I remember my Ethics professor in graduate school asking the class whether they believed that corporations deserve to be in business regardless of how ethical or responsible they behave, treat their employees or customers, or how harmful their products or services are to society. Those who said yes were overwhelmingly Republican. Those who said no, they should be out of business if any of the above are true, were overwhelmingly Democrat. Interesting.
P.S. Overlord,
Not really sure where you got the quote you posted from me to Gordy (not about Gordy, about citizen?), but here is the actual quote:
"Gordy,
"Not really sure what Citizen is talking about, but I do think its a stretch to say that the EPA is currently speaking for the American people? I think to be more accurate, it is speaking for the current administration (elected yes, but rather selective in their assesments)
Kind of uncool to to misquote someone, don't ya think?
@ TheOverlord
We do not live in a democracy. We live in a Republic, there is a big difference. It's people like you that do not even know what type of government we have that make me wonder why some people are allowed to vote.
It is interesting to see that some people don't care that for-profit corporations are poisoning the air. Perhaps those people don't have lungs or breathe oxygen, and would prefer to breathe coal smoke? Or as one cigarette addict who opposes EPA and environmentalism told me, "I don't give a d*** about clean air. I smoke." But the rest of us who do want to breathe clean air in national parks and elsewhere would like the pollution industries to spare a few of their profit dollars to clean up their act. If the EPA can make that happen, it improves health and safety. Anyone who's against that, well, I guess you love death.
Close the coal plants and build more nuclear power plants.
IDO... nice videos but he is NOT saying he is going to bankrupt them but rather they must adjust to a cap and trade on CO2 and adopt clean technologies to reduce their emissions or else they will face MASSIVE fines. See your second video for the EXACT words.The EPA has been neutered so you have nothing to worry about anyway.
Don't you think "Billions on green energy projects" is a bit of an overstatement? How much money does it cost to repair cities and infrastructure when they are destroyed by "abnormal weather patterns" which climate scientists predicted would get worse due to CLIMATE CHANGE? Now THAT will cost BILLIONS. They were right and we are beginning to see the outcome. If you think climate cvhange is BS then go and buy a house on the coast of florida and see how long it takes for a Category 5 or 6 hurricane to destroy it or for the sea top swallow it.
Marie, that is the silliest thing I have read yet (today). I'm not a republican myself (Ind) but I just dont believe that for a second. I can't believe ANYONE would vote for unethical conduct being okay, and really unlikely it just 'happened' to fall along political lines.
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of
sand."
Milton Friedman
John737278,,,,,,,manufacturing moved out of the country? Already happened, so the rich could get richer. (lower wages elsewhere) Did you move? Me either, I'll stay here and try to keep our environment from becoming as bad as the areas all our jobs are going to.
So a "left wing site" told me that I like to breath clean air?
That's weird... I thought my lungs and healthy body were telling me that.
Idaho Liberal
Don't you think it is a little naive to believe you are not still drinking water and breathing the air from where the pollution was moved to. The whole world is interconnected, and global pollution will still destroy the planet in time. On a global scale, if we can't get other countries to reduce pollution, we are better off having manufacturing here with slightly lower standards.
Some of the manufacturing left, not because of cheaper labor, but because it was no longer cost effective to meet EPA standards. Look at the auto industry. How many parts are no longer made here because we don't have the facilities to do it any longer? And that started decades ago.
My oh my, guess what happens next?
Do you suppose that the cost per KWH will increase? Do you think that a power company can operate at a loss? Do you understand that industries in utah will have to increase their prices, leave the state or go bankrupt. Will industries leaving the state cause more local unemployment? Can you get it through your head that the government regulation will make utah less attractive to industry? These are all yes or no questions.
Are there any of the above questions too difficult for you to answer? No one is going to check your answers.
Enough with the right-wing propaganda. Do American's vote for representatives in government? Of course, that's a form of democracy... representative democracy. Crazy how in the warped mind of the Teabag political ideology even democracy is now "evil" and "liberal." You won't stop until democracy is demonized and replaced with corporate autocracy.
Everyone knows we are a democracy and being a Republic doesn't change that. I'll bet you I've taken more college courses in Political Science than you have and if there's any doubt about who should be voting I'll defend my knowledge of government against your Teabag diatribe anytime.
There is a law suit to keep horse and donkeys out of the park in the Sierra Madre mountians, because the poop in the woods. So..... if you cant use motor vehicles and you cant use animals how do you get 200miles into the mountains. Take 6 months off and walk? And at what point do we outlaw raccoon's, Squirrels and any other animal that poops?
I fully agree that Utah should clean up its coal plants. In fact I think it would be a great idea to shut them down 100% and force California to actually build its own plants.
20% of all of California's energy comes from the Southwest states, much from coal fired power plants in Utah and Nevada.
It will be much better to have the pollution in major population centers than out in the rural areas of Utah.
Oh sure California has laws that make it all but impossible to build power plants in the state but that is a problem they will have to fix. They should also raise prices on electricity so people will conserve more. Oh sure it might make it hard for people living on fixed incomes to get by but we don't care about those people. They are poor and worthless.
Clean air no matter what the cost !
/end sarcasm
I'm very sorry if I took your comments out of context. Believe me, I have no reason to intentionally distort your view since clearly there are so many Republicans more than willing to double-down on anti-government and anti-environment rhetoric.
Sure, the EPA is far from perfect just like every other agency of the government. Human beings aren't perfect and NOTHING we invent is. Of course the EPA is led by the president, that's what he was elected by the people to do. Right? That's how it's supposed to work. Corporations are even worse, with only greed and profit as a motive to function, especially when they are unregulated and allowed to run amok.
You can criticize the EPA to be sure, but in this case RepubliCONs clearly are choosing political ideology above basic human safety and a clean environment. Now that is radical and ridiculous.
theoverlord... Barcode187 thinks you are stupid, I don't think you are but you evidently don't know the difference between socialism and democracy. Socialism is pronounced ''obama'' Fool!
Overlord,
"Republicons, teabaggers" and on and on and on, seriously? Are you completely incapable of accepting the fact that people who have a different worldview than you might have legitimate points (agreed, there are some dopey comments on this thread from the right also, but that's no excuse, is it?)?
This country needs a realistic, common sense approach to energy. I read your posts and the only thing that comes to mind is; this guy has nothing worthwhile to say.
P.S. I really don't think the fact that you've taken a few political science classes bolsters your argument much. Just sayin. Since 90%+ of college political science departments in the U.S. are democrat, leaning toward radical)
Personal ad-hominem attacks will only get you a ban form the forum. I know Republicans don't respect rules but this forum has them, and you sir have violated the terms. If a moderator reads your post I think you can expect to pay for your name calling.
I understand you were told by your party to attack, attack and attack some more because distraction is the lifeblood of your political agenda. But, it's not going to work this time.
I'm very capable of accepting the fact that people have differing world-views but in this case yours is bankrupt and no, I don't respect it. See, not every viewpoint is valid and you need to make a rationally and logically consistent argument to support your viewpoint for me to have any respect for it. Otherwise, I call it out for what it is. Start making sense and I'll give your political ideology the respect it deserves. Hate, fear, greed, power-lust, profit at all costs, and subversion are not things that deserve respect and manifestly are the currency of the Teabagging (term used by Teabaggers - look it up on YouTube) RepubliCONs (they are conning the American people so I have no problem pointing that out).
When are they going to ban haze in the great smoky mountains? It was across california and past scottsdale arizona the last time I was there.
Long sigh....
Overlord, your mirror is broken. I suggest you look for the truth somewhere else.
Just for fun though; how bout you describe my worldview for me. Cause it seems you believe it gives you a very clear picture of everyone else, at any rate.
I'll be standing by, working feverishly on my obvious slimy character of"Hate, fear, greed, power-lust, profit at all costs, and subversion" Sheeeesh!!
The EPA has been stiffling growth and prosperity since it's inception. Overly burdensome regulations protecting species, creating additive substances for fuel, etc. The EPA was born in the era of anti growth, which sponsored such memorable orgs as ZPG (Zero Population Growth) and was the favorite among hippies who were rallying for a 'return to mother earth', which meant living off the land, dude.... growing their own food, living in communes.... Under the EPA infrastructure projects were subject to laborious and mostly irrelevant "studies" that pushed them further in the future and simply added costs with no appreciable benefits.
It's truly time to abolish the EPA!
You guys are incredible. You took a statement like "Haha the governments telling a State what to do!" and from that derived that I am an ignorant republican hick that hates big government and that I should move to a country which has no environmental protection. What part of my "lol" stated my beliefs? None. You derived your own opinion of me through the bipartisan hate that flows from your veins. Its no wonder this Country is in the shape it's in. You guys hate your own Countrymen. Welcome back Civil war mindset.
For shame.
Theoverlord.... I'm sorry about the barcode thinks you are stupid comment and the fool remark. Seriously though, talk about being paid to post an agenda, you sound as if you recieved talking points for the day from Soros inc. To see Fox news or teabaggers associated with any posted opinion that disagrees with yours doesn't seem to be the healthiest (mentally) approach to debating an issue. So, you are not stupid or a fool, just someone who seems to be not very grounded.
Southguy,
Do you really its fair to do a Psychological test on MSNBC, posters?
Salgal, do you honestly believe someone would pay Overlord for his comments? Have you read thru his posts? I'd say he's more of an asset to those who ideologies opposite of his own (hard to pinpoint that exactly, he just seems angry at "teabaggers" and "replublicons"?)
oops South, I left out the word think. "
Do you really think its fair to do a Psychological test on MSNBC, posters?
Tod, I don't make things personal because in large part I know I'm not going to change the minds of already indoctrinated conservative Republicans. I was referring to the political platform of the party that you appear to support. The unfortunate truth is that the Republicans are now being controlled by a radically right-wing segment of the party bent on decimating government and environmental protections of all sorts. There is no room for moderation in the Republican party of 2012 and you know it.
Hate, fear, sexism, racism, division, obstruction, greed and lies are the currency of the Republican agenda and if you vote Republican then that is what you are supporting.
Projecting again Salgal? You are accusing me of exactly what poor working class and middle class Americans are doing by supporting billionaire interests like your Koch Industries that work against voters own economic interests. That's a fact, look at wages, income disparity, breakdown of wealth, political influence and employment numbers over the last 40 years and it's a clear picture that the rich are going WAY up and the poor are going WAY down. How much more of this do you think the people can withstand before they all live in slums?
If my enthusiasm is apparent it's because I strongly believe in America, the one that treats all Americans fairly and protects the common good over the pure unadulterated greed of the 0.1% richest and corporate interests. Those corporations Republicans love so much are not concerned with America, Exxon/Mobil has investors and shareholders from dozens of counties and they care ONLY about the bottom line. I care about American people NOT billionaires.
Oh, yeah, I also want to breathe fresh air... I don't have to be paid for that!
Silly me,
Of course you are above all the frey (never make it personal).
I stand corrected. Myself and the majority of the country who believe government is getting too big, too intrusive, and too expensive will collectively work on our obvious "Hate, fear, sexism, racism, division, obstruction, greed and lies"
Hope and change baby!! Come on y'all; Its high time we better ourselves. Lets start with a group sing-a-long. I know; does the European Union have an anthem?
I'm the first to admit that government is too big, thanks to George W Bush who expanded it faster than any president in history. That doesn't mean the solution is to throw away government. Hello.
Besides, you know it's all rhetoric because Republicans love big-government and claim the opposite. Bush's expansion of government, military industrial expansion, legislating morality, religion and reproduction decisions... I mean come on it's obvious you love big government and use it as an excuse to attack and criticize Democrats. I'm tired of your double-speak and I'm convinced the American people aren't going to buy it ever again.
Gordy-1086228, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
My main contention, and most conservatives (excluding most congressmen) with Bush was his expansion of government (for petes sake veto something), who cares? And who'se attacking democrats? I'm attacking you for your goofy overplayed partisan statements about half the country.
Seriously, I repeat: "your mirror is broken. I suggest you look for the truth somewhere else."
Which is why many of the Republicans from the big spending faction lost in their 2010 primaries. And it looks like that rend is continuing this year.
Lets hope so.
Youre all for that right overlord? You will be voting for bluedog democrats right? I mean you believe in less government right?
theoverlord..... Sounds like you have never learned how to invest to create your own wealth. I'm guessing that's why you gravitate to the politics of envy. obamass and progressives of his stain are experts at tapping peoples emotions, targeting greed, envy and jealousy. Some people are just suckers making manipulation so easy.
I do find it funny that the overlord identifies him/her self as such. It does reflect the philosphy of libs though. There are two kinds of democrats. Those who think that the people are too stupid to take care of themselves and therefor they need to be told what to do and be controlled and "taken care of." The other kind is those who are too stupid or lazy to take care of themselves and therefor want someone to take care of them and give them things. Overlord obviously views himself as part of the first category. As with most of those in the first category, their intelligence level is fully on display by calling everyone who disagrees with them names. But, that is to be expected because they don't have logic and reason on their side, so they the only thing they can do is call people names. Occasionally they may try to cite some facts, but the invariably get the facts wrong. I mean, really... Bush expanded government government faster than any other president in history? I guess he's never heard of Obama.
The Tea Party does not want to go back to the 18th century. That century was known as the Age of Reason, and Reason is not something that sits well with the Tea Party. The Tea Party want to go back to the 9th or 10th century when it comes to science and general ability at reason.
Thank you jon for that amazing insight, of course they do! Every single conservative thinker wants to go back to the dark ages. Its so clear to me now, smaller governemnt equals dark ages. sheeeesh.
Wrong again, my bet is that I pay more in taxes than you earn in a year.
Tod, you are quite delusional to think that the Tea Party wants smaller government, or would even recognize it if it was right in front of them. What the Tea Party wants is all of the benefits of big government programs for themselves without having to contribute a penny towards receiving it. They have twisted "No taxation without representation", a cry to give the columnists representation in Parliament, into "no taxation for me", and screw everyone else.
It is their favorite side issues of opposing Reason and Science at every turn that proves their desire to return to the dark ages and let religion rule.
the epa is the biggest scam they are all dirt bags stealing our tax dollars what a joke
and you are a waste of oxygen
Oh I know! Clean air is for communists! Clean water is for hippies! I'm sick and tired of the irrational and utterly ridiculous Republican Party. Defeat these cavepeople or we will all choke on their smog!
Obama/Biden 2012
Hey lou v, why don't you calm down and go and drink a nice cool CLEAN glass of water, without the EPA that would not be possible!
Yeah, how dare they tell companies to stop polluting the very air we breathe, the nerve!! /sarcasm
Yeah, we need more honesty, like how the oil companies, health insurers, and big banks operate their businesses.
lou vieceli,
No, the banksters are worse. But a rock brain like you wouldn't know that.
BEK So you are saying before 1970 all our water was dirty? The EPA was established under the Nixon administration. The reason was air quality in big cities. Leaded gas was the culprit.
I lived in Taiwan in the 1960's and we had clean drinking water, and that was a third world country at that time.
Basically what I am saying that is a dumb ass excuse you posted.
What? The EPA spends MY tax money on something as ridiculous as clean air and water? My uncle Bob, a retired coal miner, has a nice shiny tank of oxygen. I can just suck off of that when I need clean air. And who needs clean water? It's only like $0.98 for a bottle of Arrowhead.
Sarcasm aside, I remember what the air used to be like in L.A. in the '70s. I don't want to go back to that.
I've also been to South Africa where they have no pollution standards for automobiles, buses, or trucks. You want to appreciate the EPA? Go to South Africa. Heck you could get the same stink from Mexico or China.
Air pollution in LA was so bad in the '50s that my eyes would sting. Boy oh boy how I miss those good ol' days!
The one thing in common the liberal eco people have here is they can all call people vitriolic names.
The EPA is another failed government agency. We have a toxic site in WNC that the EPA has let slide for years! Folks in the area have to drink bottled water because of the toxins in the well water. The EPA declared the company had to clean up the site a few years ago, then demanded more testing. The first tests were inconclusive so they demanded more. Then they gave the company more time to do the clean up in 2010. Now the company is out of business and the citizens are left holding the bag. Thanks EPA!!! I guess there wasn't enough P.R. at this disaster. The EPA sucks.
By the way overlord the Republicans aren't trying to destroy and the Democrats aren't either. If you believe either party is bent on destruction you're delusional. It's all about the money.
Dexter-morgan, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Comment # 3 deleted, derail and adding zip to the conversation.
You know, the facts are that every time the EPA has dictated clean air standards, industries have complained loudly. But after they lose the fight, those same industries finally invest a little money to upgrade their plants and stop polluting. And in doing those upgrades, in every case those industries have found that they now lowered their overall cost of business and made bigger profits. In other words, the EPA has done more to improve those companies bottom lines than anything their executives would ever have thought of doing.
Now consider how much more profit those companies would have made if they hadn't wasted time and money fighting the sensible, much needed, beneficial for all, and ultimately inevitable regulations.
I hate polluters!
Define polluters. According to my definition you are a polluter just by using the electricity to make that post. People need electricity. The article said that improvements had already been done and more were coming. This threat by the EPA was more fluff than anything.
The air would be really clean if the EPA ordered an end to fires started by lightning strikes.
Yeah, and stopped all volcanic activity too!
utah to epa what you gonna crucify us.
Yeah, Lou. You'd much prefer lead in your drinking water and air you can see before you breathe it, right?
Obama just lost Utah.
Obama never had Utah
Lost Utah? It's right next to Nevada. It's one of Obama's 57 states.
Utah is as solid red as they get..slightly behind Oklahoma and Alaska...if winning Utah is the highlight of this campaign season you my little teabag-Amercian jihadist friend are in a LOT of trouble
Actually, with the off-the-rails rhetoric and policies of the right-wing Republican party Utah just might actually go to Obama in this election! Keep up the insane comments Teabaggers! You're helping Obama!
There was a time when government would go to these companies and ask for a plan to reduce emissions in a given period of time and an agreement would be reached !
They now issue a edict and threats !
That is not democracy !
And for the ignorant, TP members are not jihadists , that would be OWS !!
@ TheOverlord - Despite your enthusiasm for Obama, he will never win the state of Utah. I doubt he could win that state if the ticket read "Obama or Nobody". My guess is that more than 50% of voters in Utah would check the box under "Nobody". He has about as much chance of winning Utah as Romney does of winning New York City. Just the political reality.
After reading through numerous posts of yours on here, I also find lots of irony in the following - "with the off-the-rails rhetoric of the right-wing Republican party...". Because overly zealous left-wing democrats are NEVER "off-the-rails", right TheOverlord? hahahaha.
And lastly to all who post...most intelligent readers of these kinds of blogs (what few of us there are) immediately dismiss your comments if you insist on throwing in things like "libtards", "Nobama", or the ever popular "Teabaggers". These don't improve your argument and are actually a showcase for everything that is wrong with politics in America today. You can use humor, irony, and intelligence to get your point across without having to resort name calling.
Thank-you Ghengis.
Overlord plays every angle to his/her advantage. Calls people names then warns people they better be careful or they will be banned. I ask you what do you think people should pay for electricity or gasoline or natural gas. As I said before I would buy an electric car if I could use it, but it is not ready for prime time. I work for an auto corp and we have 4 of them lined up outside my office. NO ONE WANTS TO DRIVE THEM! We can sign out any vehicle we want to drive.....the Volts are always charging! I wonder why?
I am sure the pollution from Southern California or Las Vegas blowing in an easterly direction has nothing to do with this haze in the national parks. It is just two power plants in Utah. Right. The enviro-mental inmates are running the asylum.
Very true Non Mormon Utahn, but that's why it is a little disconcerting to discover that the legislation that attempts to control cross-stateline pollution is being challenged:
http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2012/04/12/cross-state-goes-to-court-oral-arguments-start-tomorrow-in-lawsuits-about-clean-air-rule/
non mormon Uthan
apparently you have never been in So. Ca. trust me the haze/smog doesn't make it over the mountains, it stays in Ca.
Non Mormon Utahn
it can't hurt to clean up the power plants but trust me, I've lived in Ca and the haze/smog doesn't go any farther east than the mountain range, then it just hangs around the west coast
So, is the EPA ordering Utah to cut the haze, or the power companies. Or both? Or one more than the other? What about smog that blows in from other states?
The report found that Utah's own regulations are too lax, a state can run an environmental program if it's at least at the same level as the feds. The EPA report found that two power plants were not in compliance with environmental controls and the result was haze in THAT county that covered 5 national parks.
The order to Utah was to enforce clean air regulations and make the power plants come into compliance.
Federal regulations. Set in part by the Eco-bunnies who would like to ban anything that emits carbon. Great in maybe 20 years......but now they are not ready.
Are are some things money just can't buy. Joni Mitchell is right. "You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone". Will we ever learn this?
EPA.....Exceptionally Pathetic A$sholes? For the few good things they have done.....there has been exhorbant taxpayer cost for other projects and laws that are unrealistic and expensive. If I were president....the EPA would be the first to be reorganized with a realistic reach and authority. But then.....I'm never going to be president.
Dan,
I agree.... The problem is that the EPA is ALL POWERFUL and makes up their own regulations as they see fit without any control (Vote) by the American people. There is NO common sense and no cost accountability. Yes we all want to protect our enviroment and the original intent of the EPA accomplished may GOOD things. But for at least the last decade most of the EPA uncontrolled regulatory powers have made minimal improvement at MAJOR costs to our economy. I would suggest that all the people that support the EPA turn off all their home utilities, sell their gas burning cars and quit using anything that comes from fossil fuels. I would be interested in seeing how many are willing to make that change for the good of the enviroment?
I spent last winter living in Utah and the the smog in western\southern Utah is WAY out of control I just assumed it was because all the idiot drivers.
Idiot drivers?? I assume you meant to offend everyone in the US except for yourself of course as you hike with dogs everywhere you go.
First off gmk-2013680 you probably spend more time on your @ss than you do doing anything outside so your opinion is pretty much worthless, you've probably never even been to a national park much less a national park in southern Utah to see the smog\pollution for yourself.
I'm from the Midwest people in Utah can't drive worth a @!$%#, I've put over a 100K miles on motorcycles(in rush hour traffic) but wouldn't dream of commuting on a motorcycle in UT, it would be like playing Russian roulette.
we need MORE pollution, less government!
Take a sip of your drinking water......maybe you'll enjoy the benzene before the cancer sets in.
So let's see, the weather moves from west to east and California must be creating a bit of the haze. Maybe the EPA should build a wall around Utah to keep the haze out.
Or better yet, a wall to keep Utahans in.
You do realize there is a state in between Utah and California right? Argument irrelevant.
Hooray for the EPA!
This shows the finally, the EPA has a little starch in their spine. Now they can take on the other national parks that are being polluted by coal-fired power plants, such as the Great Smoky NP. For those of you who decry government controls, you have only one choice: choke to death on the pollution you are favoring. The rest of us want to breathe clean air and see our national treasures protected.
First thing you do is fire all of them and hire some people that can identify problems, and offer help with the issues. Any idots can mandate with threats of fines but don't have a clue as to fix the problems without shutting down the factories or breaking their banks. All the energy companies should shut down (lights out)and wait for the EPA stuppidos to come up with resonnable answers then turn the lights back on.
with idea's like that you're calling other people stupid?? wow, that's pretty brave of you there Einstein.
The technology to reduce coal plant emissions has been around for decades. Why is it the responsibility of the government to pay to clean up the mess created by a for-profit business?
Hartvig Lein, Simple,,,,,,,after paying CEO, Upper Level Mngt, and stockholders all the record profits they are making, there is no money left to make any improvement in technology, and definatly none to spend on research.
I love the view of Gateway National Park. The view of the weeds and pigeons is breath taking. It puts those parks with little cracks in the ground like the Grand Canyon to shame.
Try living in China
I thought we were.
We'll all be living under China's rule if the EPA keeps strangling our economy!
Screw the EPA. We need to throw that agency out. They are to a large part responsible for the "haze" over our economy! Get the economy healthy and we'll have the resources to tackle some of these issues. The economy should be number one on everyone's list or there won't be an America left!
you are everything that is wrong with America. You are putting the economy first? There will be no economy if we push our planet over the edge. That should be our prime concern. Lung disease has become so prevalent in recent years-- kids with asthma doubled since the 1980's wake up and smell this nasty air moron! We must prevent the greedy corrupt republicans from obtaining any higher office.
The nasty air I smell is the breath of a flaming liberal envirowacko!
"drastically reduced visibility" ha hhaa ahaa a ... what a joke.
The EPA has a duty to regulate, but this is liberal BS. There are NO visibility problems anywhere in Utah.
dream on.....
Yeah, no visibility problems... except all the haze last Friday at Zion National Park. I was there, wondered if it was just natural haze. Now I know the answer. Really screwed up photography of the beautiful national park.
Coal Fired plants should be shut down...!!! Filty polluting things they are...
Stephanie: Tell it to the democrat congressmen that invest in the railroads that deliver the coal.
Thanks to the EPA we will have a pristine environment while we starve to death.
Stephanie: Ok but if we are serious about this stop the export of the unused coal. Shut down the mines.If not it just moves the problem, unless that's the real goal. no industry, just unicorns and rainbows
I think the EPA should have the right to shoot those nasty polluters. Who needs power in their caves anyhow. The ugly uppity additude of our ecoweinies is just un-stoppable. Champions of their egos Isn't that what EPA stands for Ego's Providing (hot) Air????????????
Yes let's finally admit that we can power our cities with Pixy Dust and Fairy Farts!
,'-D
Isn't "Angry White Conservative" redundant?
No. My mom didn't raise a fool, either: Lots of angry citizens of all colors, creeds, and persuasions: some conservative, some liberal, but most in-between.
What does it take to get people to realize that they are responsible for the air they breathe? Their own battle with Pneumonia? Chronic bronchitis? Emphysema? Asphyxiation? Asthma? Cystic fibrosis? Lung cancer? Skin cancer? Impaired vital functionality and loss of capacity for thought processing? COPD? Heart failure? Burning eyes? Choking to death? Or do we just continue to suffer in silence, until the vegetation that creates oxygen/nitrogen dies, and our aquifers are industrial cesspools--ending the argument for human survival?
It has been said that "If you harbor snakes in your garden, there's no guarantee that they'll only bite others." Nature doesn't march to the Imperial Drummer. It does not discriminate between you and another. If a company or industry cannot survive without killing the environment we share, then that company/industry should be dispatched to a timely end.--and the sooner, the better.
As a human being, I'm no champion of "Corporate Personhood".
Wow. I do not understand why so many people are so vehemently against the EPA and, by extension, clean air and water. Does the department have it's problems? Perhaps. But what they're doing is a good thing. Apparently, the vague threat against MAH TAX DOLLARS is more important than clean air.
Also, why are there several people blaming California? Do they not own a map? And did they miss the part where the EPA located the exact suspects in the area--a couple of plants that aren't up to standards? Though I suppose it's much more time-efficient to just skim the headlines and immediately start ranting. Reading and sifting through facts is awfully time consuming.
How much time did you spend reading?
From the full story:
So let's see we have the EPA psturing and issuing an order telling the power plants to do what they are already doing, and they waited until this Monday to reject a 4 year old plan and then give Utah a couple of months to fix it. If Utah doesn't they face several Federal sanctions. And you wonder why people don't care for the EPA.
I read the full story. It would be a bit hypocritical of me not to.
I never said that they were doing a good job. Government in general tends to work slowly and inefficiently. However, this THE EPA IS EVIL AND COMMUNIST AND SOCIALIST AND ANTI-CAPITALISTIC AND WE SHOULD DISBAND THEM AND RAZE THE BUILDING AND SALT THE EARTH mentality, and I'm paraphrasing (slightly), isn't the answer either. They're still trying to do a good thing, even if they (like most bureaucracies) are horrible at their job. I just don't understand why anyone with lungs would ever come down on the side of the out-of-date, polluting factories.
I'm all for streamlining the EPA and making it more efficient, but the absolute vitriol aimed at the guys that look out for our clean air and water is mind-boggling.
If the EPA rode in to Utah in their Smart Cars and waltzed into the factories with a stack of papers and said "this is exactly what you're going to do and we need it done by next Tuesday", people would be screaming about government interference in private business and the state's autonomy. Besides, these factories and the state of Utah knew that things were out of date and non-compliant. If they're dragging their feet, I see no problem with the EPA stepping in to say "chop chop".
So yeah, the EPA might not be the most efficient government entity, but they're trying to do good things. Meanwhile, the only green that the typical factory owner cares about is the color of his money.
Ms. Emily I can tell you I've had dealings with our EPA. It goes like this meeting, talk, talk squared. meeting meeting meeting no time left too late here's you fine Remember your dealing with bureaucrats,bureaucrats with unlimited power that is used with glee. My answer I just closed the company. Oh I'm OK former employees I'm not sure.
Out of date is probably why they developed a plan that was ready in 2008. The EPA waited until Monday to say the plan would not fly. Who was it that dragged their feet? I see a problem with an unrealistic timeline.
What would you have them do spend resources developing plan B while they waited for the EPA to make up it's mind?
California does NOT make enough of its own energy or have enough water. The Divert water to get it to California and they buy power from neighboring states. We here in Michigan buy power from Canada. Maybe we can make Canada our power company and put huge fans on the borders to push the pollution north.
How about the EPA allowing Utah to replace the two 30+ year old plants with newer more modern ones?
It has been a stated goal of the Obama administration to regulate coal fired power plants out of business. He promised this as a candidate in 2008. Even though Utilities in Ohio have spend a lot of money on pollution controls, the coal fired generating will be phased out in favor of natural gas. All this is paid for by the utility customers, since the generators are legal monopolies allowed by law to cover their costs.
It seems that in Utah, the EPA has dragged their feet on the plan, so the companies did not make the investment in pollution controls that might not be approved by the EPA. As the article says, these plants are scheduled to be replaced in 2014. Anything that the companies are forced to do in the meantime is just going to be an added cost to the utility customers.
One of the main concerns with coal fired plants is that it creates more CO2 per unit of energy than other fuels. There are two funny things about this. First, with government funding, the port of Tacoma is being upgraded to ship the fuel coal to China ... as if their CO2 will be on a different planet. Second, natural gas, while resulting in less CO2, will also emit more water vapor, which is also a greenhouse gas in reality, but not legislatively.
This action in Utah is just more election year posturing to feed the incorrect perception that if there is a change in administration, that all environmental regulations will be eliminated. In the meantime, this administration uses the EPA to meet their goal of raising American energy costs to the level that they are in Europe. They have actually come out and said this.