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Reuters
An ethnic Rakhine man holds homemade weapons as he walks in front of houses that were burnt during fighting between Buddhist Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya communities in Sittwe on Sunday. Northwest Myanmar was tense on Monday after sectarian violence engulfed its largest city at the weekend, with Reuters witnessing rival mobs of Muslims and Buddhists torching houses and police firing into the air to disperse crowds.
Reuters
Policemen move towards burning houses during fighting between Buddhist Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya communities in Sittwe on Sunday. Northwest Myanmar was tense on Monday after sectarian violence engulfed its largest city at the weekend, with Reuters witnessing rival mobs of Muslims and Buddhists torching houses and police firing into the air to disperse crowds.
Reuters
Ethnic Rakhine people get water from a firefighter truck to extinguish fire set to their houses during fighting between Buddhist Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya communities in Sittwe.
Reuters
An ethnic Rakhine woman carries her belongings and a sharpened bamboo stick for protection during fighting between Buddhist Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya communities in Sittwe on Sunday.
Staff / Reuters
A Buddhist monk looks from the window behind a policeman during fighting between Buddhist Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya communities in Sittwe.
Reuters reports that at least seven people were killed in fighting in northwest Myanmar:
The unrest undermines the image of ethnic unity and stability that helped persuade the United States and Europe to suspend economic sanctions this year, while increasing curfews could threaten tourism and foreign investment - rewards for emerging from nearly half a century of army rule.
It might also force reformist President Thein Sein, a former general, to confront an issue that human rights groups have criticized for years: the plight of thousands of stateless Rohingya Muslims who live along Myanmar's border with Bangladesh in abject conditions and are despised by many ethnic Rakhine, members of Myanmar's predominantly Buddhist majority.
A state of emergency in Myanmar after rival mobs of Buddhists and Muslims terrorize towns and burn homes. Msnbc.com's Dara Brown reports.
See more images from Myanmar in PhotoBlog.
Leave a Comment:
Seems like where there are Muslims , there's trouble ....
I hope the Buddhist kick there butts ....
my thoughts exactly.
I've never seen a mob of Buddhists. Will they Ohm the Muslims to death?
Bigben, No truer words could be spoken, (or written) (or typed). Good post.
@Suzuki, The "Holy War" you're referring to I assume is the Crusades. Those occurred because the Byzantine Emperor begged the Pope for help since the Muslims invaded and pushed back their territory. If the Muslims weren't trying to conquer the world at the time, then the Crusades would have never happened. Of course during the Crusades many people died including civilians, but how is that any different than any other war, secular or religious in nature, ever?
If there are none, they will invent them.
Compare the conditions in the US about 25 years back, when Pakis, Bangladesh, Somalians were not many and now!
Suzuki, the article concerns conflict between Buddists and Muslims. Why do you feel the need to disparage a group that has nothing to do with this and are there any other groups that you would like to drag into your derail???
You religious folk are crazy as loons. Doesn't matter which flavor, all of you are psycho.
Suzuki, The Christian "Holy Wars" and "The Templars" were over almost a thousand years ago and should be mentioned in the PAST TENSE. They're only kept alive by Hollywood and the History Channel.
Let's see: the Muslims don't get along with Buddhists. They don't get along with Christians. They don't get along with Jews. They don't get along with HIndus. And they certainly despise Atheists. Who DO they get along with, I wonder? Religion of peace? Let me guess- it's everyone else on the planet who is the problem, NOT Muslims, eh? Hmmmmmmmmmm.
This is just one of those fights that have been going on for centuries and will continue to go on . The same holds true for the Pakistani / India Border ( same two groups ) fighting it out there, for hundreds of years . Just another local conflict we are better off staying out of ( hopefully we will stay out of it ).
Myanmar is predominately Buddhist and many members of the majority community resent members of minority groups descended from people from South Asia, most of whom are Muslim.
Protests are rare in Myanmar, where dissent was suppressed under the military's five-decade rule, which ended 15 months ago when a reformist, civilian-led government took office.
Demonstrations have since been legalized, albeit with numerous restrictions, and are taking place more often over issues like land ownership and power shortages, emboldening activists and testing the restraint of security forces.
Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thet Lwin, the officer in charge of handling the Tuesday protest, said police were mobilized to prevent any disturbance.
"The issue in question is nothing to do with race. All citizens are entitled to equal rights," he told reporters.
Sunday's killing of the Muslims and the reported murder of the woman come as tension between Buddhists and Rakhine state's Muslim minority simmers.
Official media's reporting of the incident has also been contentious, causing upset on Internet social media among Buddhists as well as Muslims.
Media used a slang word "kalar" to refer to Muslims. The word means guest and is considered derogatory to people of South Asian descent in Myanmar, many of whose ancestors entered the county from the Indian subcontinent under British colonial rule.
Ko Mya Aye, a Muslim who was jailed for his part in a 1988 pro-democracy student uprising against the then military junta, urged the protesters to disperse to avoid confrontation.
"We should not do anything that will make the present situation reverse and go back to square one," he said, adding that the media's choice of words in reporting the incident was "adding fuel to the fire".
HOTTICKET: Shiites don't get along with Sunnis.
Sunnis don't get along with Shiites, Ahmedias, Sufis and others.
If infidels are there in enough numbers, "love" and "peace" people kill them.
If there are no infidels to kill, then they kill each others.
Instead of cheering from the sides in the Shiites vs Sunnis battles in Syria, some "smart" want to disturb them.
In Pakistan, Sunnis blow up Shiite, Ahemdia, Sufi mosques on Fridays while "love" and "peace" people pray and then bomb hospitals such that more injured are killed.
By the by, Sufis are the "love" and "peace" and their dances and dramas people of followers!
Suzuki you are a typical muslim supremacist enabler. You attempt to move the discussion from Islamic supremacist jihadist murderers to another topic. Keep the focus on the article and where it truely belongs; more murder and mayhem by Nazi thugs, oops I meant Islamic supremacists. Now they want to murder and enslave peaceful Budhists. And of course they will justify their actions by quoting the koran and hadiths...sick.
This is the first time i heer about this is tereble,bodist are usualy a very paece full people.And thy have much respect for all kinds of life .I will ad them to my preyers.
Hotticket Reminds me of a member of my family. She argues with everyone and talks bad about other family members and then wonders why noone wants to talk to her. If you have trouble with everyone, you have to look at yourself.
Ah, religion.
This small strife can basically be looked upon as a microcosm of our world today ... simply extrapolate outward and insert whatever dogmatic ideology one wishes. It's all the same.
I wonder ... if an Afghan nomad from a few generations ago were somehow able to time travel to the 21st century, would they even know they left?
While the West has its problems ... corruption, greed, politicians ... these are all things that warrant debate and discussion.
See, we can have a reasonable discourse based within the foundations of our political systems. We can talk about economics, politics, etc. These concepts have varying degrees and perspectives of "truth." And, there will no doubt be varying degrees of successes and failures along the spectrums of each that further help move our understanding towards a shared view of the world.
But this unifying view will only come through our shared human experience.
The one piece ... the one factor that impedes this, is religion.
No other entity has transpired to balkanize and polarize the world in such a way as to render the very nature of the human condition obsolete. If we are to ever create a truly harmonious society, there is simply no room for a selective appeal to revelation.
We can ignore this, sure. But we do so at our own peril.
Except that we owe our entire modern moral/ethical code to religion. Philosophy and Science were all branched off of and established by people working, studying at, or supported by religious institutions. Most religious wars were not led by religious leaders but led by a secular leader who was simply looking for an excuse to go to war.
Nations or regions of the world that are becoming less religious currently, Europe most specifically and the U.S. second are the ones in a downward spiral right now, while nations that are either sustaining their religious beliefs or becoming more religious, specifically China are the up and comers. In China for example, in 1949 there was roughly 1 million Christians total, today the lowest state figure puts them at 14 million while independent estimates puts them at 40-130 million. So the amount of Christians in the country has gone up 80-100 fold+ while the population has only doubled.
The fact is religion has been and always will be apart of the human experience. People will use it to help improve their lives and to destroy other peoples way of life, but how is that any different than what any secular organization has done? Genghis Khan conquered much of the know world, killed millions and enslaved more for entirely his own purposes. Stalin killed 30 million of his own people for the sake of the Soviet State. Hitler caused a war that killed 66 million people worldwide and targeted religious minorities for atrocities, but his purposes were entirely secular and he as well as others beliefs were based in science, or at least the science of the time. Secular and scientific organizations have committed the same sins as the religious ones. The only difference at this point is the religious organizations know they are sinners, the scientists commit their sins and claim them as for the betterment of man.
You really shouldn't have started your post with this ... it deflated any shred of credibility you may have had.
Well please feel free to tell us all what we owe it to? or if you could cite any historical facts relative to the topic at hand that would be great.
I certainly don't remember seeing Thou shalt not kill, steal, lie etc... in a Biology or Physics text book.
In fact according to Biology and Theory of Evolution it is in my best interests to eliminate you as a male so there are more females for me to procreate with and pass on my genetic material. That was certainly Genghis Khan's methodology and considering he has 16 million living descendants, more than any known human, you can't argue with its success.
So is your argument that all males should attempt to eliminate each other and mate with as many women before they die as possible? and by force if necessary? That will certainly ensure survival of the fittest.
"Thou shall not kill", eh?
Is that the same book that also says I can beat my slave as hard as I'd like just as long as I don't put his eye out?
So Genghis Khan read Darwin now? Jeez ... your history is worse than your science.
Funny ... I never read that part in the Origin of Species. You know where I did read something about forcing yourself on women? Come to think of it, it was in that same "Thou shall not kill" book.
Such great moral guidance!
Silly Billy ...
... what?
No more silliness? I was having a lot of fun destroying your arguments.
Please come back :(
The ten commandments are in Exodus, I don't recall it saying anything in regards to slaves, but if you can quote the chapter and verse I'll believe you.
Just because Genghis Khan lived hundreds of years before Darwin doesn't mean he didn't practice concepts that are discussed in Darwin's Theories. Your argument is that somehow Evolution and it's practices didn't exist before Darwin wrote them down. Humans did actually participate in the process you know.
As to the final quote there. That is an extrapolation of the Theory. Go ask any biologist what your two biological purposes on earth are and they with tell "To Survive and to Reproduce." Given that statement you can take it a step further and say the goal is then to reproduce as much and as often as possible. This is shown time and again in nature, all you have to do is watch a nature show on PBS or the Discover Channel to watch this process. Males of the Species fight for dominance in order for the right to mate with females. Whether it Monkeys, Bison, Lions, Elephants or any other creature. They behave the same way and for the same reason. So yes, The Theory of Evolution, which includes works beyond just Darwin, because that is the way science works, does discuss and understand such concepts as males eliminating other males and then essentially raping the females of the species. They also sometimes kill the young produced by the previous Alpha-male. Because why should a male waste time and resources protecting and raising children that are not his.
The Bible does go on past Exodus and Leviticus which is where most of the Jewish Laws are and the New Testament modified and or simplified many of them. Just because the Bible seemingly countermands itself at times does not mean that our concepts were not derived from it. Jewish Law became Christian Law and Christian Law mixed with Roman Law and Old English Law formed our modern legal system as well as our concepts of right and wrong. The majority of Philosophical concepts particular ethics were all derived from people that were raised in and Christian environment with Christian ideals. So yes our entire moral and ethical outlook is based off a book that is 2000-3000 years old. Hate to break it to you buddy but in fact your moral outlook which you think is so rational and scientific is actually very very Christian.
and I believe I am the one destroying your arguments thank you very much. ;)
I won't say whether religion in itself is good or bad, as that's a debate for philosophers (after all, how does one define what is "good" or "bad"? Is there truly an absolute and universal definition?) But I will say instead: People are imperfect. They'll take hold of any ideology, regardless of whether it secular or religious, and use it to their own ends. That, in and of itself, does not guarantee or demonstrate that the ideology is bad or good, but rather, it shows that it's easy to exploit to more devious ends.
On the other hand, I think a large part of that is because -people- are easy to exploit. Even without religion, people as a whole would rather have someone else tell them what to think, than to think for themselves. Then they can parrot and mimic what they heard or read from others with whom they agree.
People can say "I am this" or "I am that" and attach any label they want to themselves or to others, but that does not make it true, especially if their actions contradict that self-given label.
P.S. SillyBilly,
I find it revealing how Chad didn't even address your points about the mass murders and genocides that occurred under secular regimes. Instead, he chose to nitpick Bible verses, of all things. I think it shows an obvious bias and lack of objectivity, and by extension, a lack of credibility.
@Silly,
Wait, so how am I supposed to take you seriously when you don't even know what your book of "morals" says?
So let me get this straight, you're providing me a base-reference for a moral compass ... yet you don't even know the full context of the information contained within said example?
Wow, I'm becoming completely mesmerized with all this moral guidance ... maybe I'll just sell my daughter into sexual slavery tomorrow. After all, Sillybilly says the Bible is where we get our morals, right?
------------------------------------
@Ken
I didn't address the question because it's completely nonsensical.
1.) A direct quote from Hitler's autobiography:
2.) Every nazi soldier wore a standard-issued belt buckle that read "GOTT MIT UNS" which means "GOD WITH US".
3.) All Nazi soldiers also took an oath to Hitler saying - I SWEAR BY GOD THIS HOLY OATH....TO ADOLF HITLER
4.) Stalin was an atheist ....... and? ...... What's your point?
Anyone with a high school education knows that Stalin's regime was one of pure totalitarian rule. They didn't worship a god because he was their god. Political dogma can be just as powerful and unwavering as religious dogma ... the problem with Stalin's reign wasn't "too little" religion, it was that it was too much like a religion. Just replace the "father and the son" with "The Dear Leader" .... and there you go.
But I'm curious, can you please explain how any of that has anything to do with "secularism"?
Do you even understand what that term means? You do realize that a lot of religious people are ALSO secular, right?
My god man, have you ever took the time to read a history book? I'd start with the majority of our founders ... perhaps look at Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" and come back here and educate us all on the evils of secularism?
Thanks for finding the verse and yes it is where our society gets its moral compass. Of course I don't know every verse in the Bible. It's 1200 pages long and versus such are those are part of the Hebrew legal code, why should I memorize that? You still have not given one shred of evidence that it is not where we get our moral concepts. You've simply pointed out the parts that are considered immoral by todays standards. That doesn't prove your point. Ideas do evolve. Keep in mind that Slavery was legal in this country until 1863 and that the abolitionist movement was formed almost entirely of devout Christians.
As to 1,2 and 3, Look at your Money, Look at the creeds of every branch of the U.S. Armed Forces. How are your examples there any different than their counter parts in the U.S. ? "In God We Trust"
As to 4, sort of like how we worship the flag and the Constitution? Sort of like how some people want to ban Flag burning and other practices that they consider un-American?
Don't confuse my use of the word secular with that of secularism. They are not the same.
Yes, in fact I have a degree in History brah. Short of quoting obscure Bible versus, I'm still waiting on you to educate us on what we owe our current societal ethics and morals to? Is there some other document or book that has influenced Western Civilization more than the Bible? Please tell us oh great and all knowing Chad.
Ah I love these arguments, when secularists and Christians debate where our western morals come from, they are so funny to read as both sides choose to omit information that doesn’t fit their argument, and always focus on the most negative aspects of the other side.
For example a Christian will say that according to evolution he should kill other men and rape women, yet they leave out that humans (like many other species) are “pack animals” and that in terms of survival it makes sense if we work together and as such we have had to evolved certain “social codes” of behaviour.
Of course then we have the “atheists” who always point out the horrible verses in the bible and show how that they don’t fit in with our modern morality, yet nearly all of those are from the old testament and they leave out that it is also clear that Christianity has had a great unifying effect on Europe, by providing Europe with a common set of values that all Europeans (especially in the medieval period) could relate to.
But still keep up the argument it’s hilarious
Yes but in my posts I actually gave instances of pack animals that do exactly that, such as lions. Elephants do the same thing. Watch a video of a Bull Elephant in musk and see how violent the thing is. All those nice elephants you see at the circus are always female.
Besides I'm not claiming that Christianity is any better than any other religion or better than science. I'm simply pointing out that it is our legacy and has been turned to time and again over the past 2000 years to guide our ideals and has had the biggest influence on it.
@Silly
Hmm, okay. You're correct ... but I thought this stuff was supposed to be revelation?
Can you reference where I ever said the Bible doesn't/didn't have "influence"? What you fail to realize is, the very Bible itself has many classical influences that preceded both its moral philosophies; as well as its mythologies. Do The Analects of Confucius ring a bell?
You're a history major, but you don't know when "In God we Trust" was implemented as our state motto? You may want to look that one up also. Here's a hint, that little pearl didn't come along until almost 200 years after our foundation.
------------------------------------
@Losmuertos
I'm glad we could entertain you, but you may want to actually absorb what you are read first ... less you be entertained for all the wrong reasons.
My scriptural references were brought up as a reply to Silly, who was adamant that our morals came from the Bible. He referenced the Old Testament commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill" ... so I replied with ....(you guessed it) .... Old Testament scripture to counter such absurdity.
Hmmm, how dare on stay on topic with him.
Maybe next time in all your haste to make someone look a fool, you'll slow down a bit ... take some time for reflection before you jump in, trousers wet.
Surely you are joking.
Please proceed ... I have to hear this ....
Silly
I see, so we simply discard the 6 thousand+ years of recorded culture, law, and ethical code that long proceeded your faith, right?
But wait, if our morals come from your Bible, how did human beings establish moral law thousands of years before the appearance of Christ and the Bible?
If we didn't naturally evolve human solidarity/morality ... how did we even make it to the point of the Bible? We would have killed each other out long before ... don't you think?
It seems you're in quit the pickle here my friend
Oh, and Losmuertos
When you provide us will all this enlightenment of how much unity and peace Christianity brought medieval Europe ... please use reputable, historical sources without a Christian agenda (with citation).
I can't wait :)
Lol
I’m being attacked by both sides now and not a single person has asked me where I stand, but oh ok well Chad I’ve been reading an interesting book called The Shield of Achilles (War, Peace and the course of History) by Philip Bobbitt and in that (I cannot remember page number but it’s near the start) he mentions how during the medieval period when there was no “common” European identity that the Catholic church stepped in to provide a sense of common identity (by introducing a common value system of Christianity) to Europeans, with the effect being that this help to solve dispute between the royals of the time, set legal contracts, and all that. So that in effect it allowed a Frenchman and a German to find a form of common ground (now obviously this didn’t help stop wars and gave the Church way to much influence but hey sometimes you have to make the best you can with what you have) oh and as for my criticism (if you want to call it that) notice in my last post I didn’t aim anything at you? (or silly) I only repeated and simplified the arguments that I have heard before and that you guys both have made.
Now as for Silly well just to let you know I’ve never seen animals at the circus outside of cartoons as animal acts are seen as immoral where I am, but still yes you are correct that some pack animals do kill each other and just like some religious people kill each other too, my whole point was that just as nature and evolution gives us reason to kill (so survival, spreading of genes ect) it also gives us plenty of reasons not to kill too (so survival, pack mentality ect) which is a point that many a Christian wants to ignore completely.
Sure ... if you conformed to Catholic law and doctrine as mandated by one (of many) corrupt and murderous Popes at the time.
I wonder, have you ever looked into the history of the Papacy ... the leadership of this timeframe you speak of? It's quite astonishing. To say the Catholic Church was a "religious"organization of that time is a touch mischievous .... they were a political ideology and force like Europe had never seen before. There was a unity, sure, but it was one of corruption, torture, and murder ... all unified under the banner of "redemption".
To say the Church united Europe is like saying Hitler united Europe.
Of course ... if you believed the dogma and pledged allegiance to the principles. Those that didn't, well let's just say they suffered a different fate.
If you're interested in learning about a truly unifying force of Europe, I can think of no better place to start than the concept of The Enlightenment (a time when we finally began to shed our religious counterparts and look to reason over faith). There's simply never been a greater force of classical unification and cultural/societal transcendence that brought forth such light to the human condition ... not only Europe and the West, but the world in general.
When did I ever say or argue that the Bible was a revelation? I think you're assuming that because I'm making a seemingly pro-Christian argument that I am also a Bible Humper.
Wrong! The majority of the Old Testament pre-dates Confucius by a least 700 years. Also there is little evidence that any far eastern philosophy had made it's way to the Middle East in the days of Jesus. Although there is some evidence that Buddhism may have influenced Jesus' ideals. Something that I believe is entirely possible. The majority of the Laws and Moral concepts in the Old Testament were influenced by Babylon and Egypt, they had no, let me repeat that, no classical influence what-so-ever. The Jews and their religion are an anomaly from all the other civilizations around them at the time. There is only one other instance of Monotheism is Ancient times and that was during the reign of Pharaoh Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV, 1364-1347 B.C.). That instance was quickly thwarted as soon as that Pharaoh was dead, foul play may have been involved.
Again you are wrong. Although it was adopted as our nations motto in 1956, it has been appearing on coinage since 1864. Further how does that in any way defeat my argument there? It is still on our currency, it is our nations motto and it clearly demonstrates influence.
You have still failed to mention a single source that has had more influence on Western Civilizations ideas of morality than the Bible. My statement is simply that the Bible has had the biggest influence on our Society's moral compass. Sure some of the Bible is cruel, but the majority of the Old Testament is the Jewish Legal code and a History of the Jewish people. Just because you don't happen to agree with everything in there doesn't mean it hasn't had a profound influence. Jesus didn't agree with everything in there. Hence the Pharisees having the Romans crucify him. The New Testament is part of the Bible too Chad. Jesus' ideas did change a lot. He's the reason we don't ritually sacrifice animals anymore. He's the reason there is a movement to abolish the death penalty. He is the reason Pro-lifers want to ban abortion. You can argue all day about his divinity and how people have used various passages in the Bible for immoral purposes, but to argue that his concepts are not the most profound influence on morality in the history Western Civilization is simply absurd. His concepts were mainly influenced by Jewish concepts and since the Bible is both of the Old and New Testament, it is the best selling book ever and every person that doesn't live under a rock and maybe even some that do know who Jesus Christ is, tells us quite simply that it is the most influential work ever. Watch an episode of Jay Walking and see how many people know who Thomas Payne is.
I can agree with that. On a side note. Most people that call themselves Christian are not really Christian. Christianity is as much a life style and a philosophy as it is a religion. You have to live it every day to actually be one. You can say you believe in Christ all day but if you don't make legitimate attempts to live his message than you are not a Christian.
LOL! The best part about that is that the only reason the enlightenment happened is because monks in monasteries and the Vatican had been going blind copying the works of Plato and Aristotle as well as the dissemination of knowledge that occurred thanks to the Printing Press. You can thank the Catholic Church anytime. :P
Silly,
It's almost as if you'd simply like to pull the wool over your eyes in regards to any and all other culture that came before Christianity. Please realize Confucius was a small example, we can go back much further. How about Sumer?
Most of our specific moral code and civil conduct can be found in ancient Sumerian/Mesopotamian Laws. Is that far back enough for you?
I don't think you're a bible thumper, just severely misinformed.
Anyone who thinks we get our morals from the Bible (and therefore couldn't be moral without it) is yes, I'm sorry if it offends you, completely ignorant to the full extent of our human history.
Not only that, but your earlier posts where you completely invented the strawman that I was in some way pushing a form of morality based on social Darwinism only highlights the disconnect between you and I.
It seems you completely failed to read the part in my 2nd to last post where I talked about Babylon and Egypt influencing the Bible. That does not change the fact that the Bible is still the best selling book in History.
You're failing to understand the reality of the situation. Sure the Bible had external influences. That does not change the fact that the Bible is the most read and discussed work in all of human history. The Bible has remained largely unchanged aside from translations for 1700 years. People still read it everyday. Go to any Hotel Room, look in the nightstand drawer and guess what you will find? 9 out of 10 household have a Bible in them. Find me 9 out of 10 households that have a copy of any other work that you might suggest. No one is reading the Code of Hammurabi or has any great understanding of the Roman Legal System outside of scholars. Go ask some person on the street who Virgil was or what is Descartes know for and you'll be lucky to find anyone who knows what you're talking about. The fact is only 22% of the adult population has a college degree, but 80% of the population is some denomination of Christian or is Jewish.
From my point of you, you have such a disdain for the Bible you are denial to the fact that it influenced your thinking and that of everyone around you. At this point it has become obvious that your opinion has little basis in fact as you have shown few and even the ones that you attempted to present were simply wrong or taken completely out of context. You are not doing much more than spewing nonsense that you can't back up. On top of that you are taking the statements that I make and claiming it means something that it doesn't. You fail to read my entire posts or simply ignore the parts that you don't like. Your tactics have been to attack the Bible but you have barely defended your own position. Essentially it amounts to trolling. If you are unwilling to present legitimate rebuttals with complete facts, accurate portrayals or for that matter even answer my questions or properly fulfill my requests for information to justify your position(which you have done only once); then there is no reason to continue this discussion. I am open minded to legitimate opinions from people that can make coherent arguments backed up by consistent and reliable evidence. Until you can do that I am through here.
Good Day Sir! :)
And you've done nothing but move the goalposts this entire time my friend. That's how you play tennis without the net. And where I come from, that's not being intellectually honest.
All you've done is deposit strawman after strawman on top of arguments I've never made.
When I call you out for it, you basically say: "Yes, fine, the Bible has had many cultural/moral influences ... but it's found in hotel bedrooms! Can't you see, we'd be lost without its moral guidance!"
I never once said the Bible wasn't influential ... or didn't contain any wisdom or beauty ... or whatever!
I've only merely highlighted that our individual rights-to-man, social sovereignty and moral compassion is not dependent on (nor does it predicate belief or study in) the Bible. We were moral beings long before your monotheistic god (and book) came along.
My ENTIRE position has been that we simply do not get our morals from the Bible ... and you've admitted that moral law, code, and ethics existed before the Bible ... yet you still insist we get our morals from the Bible.
Entertaining a debate with you has been like arguing with an Alzheimer's patient.
Good day, in deed.
I said GOOD DAY SIR!
Yeah, I didn't think you'd have much to say after that.
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when the Christian is making more sense than the Atheist.
Did one of you seriously just register a new account to post that .... wow, that's pretty pathetic.
Lol, what's pathetic is you're still trolling this thread. Don't you have anything else do to? Like maybe go to work, sleep and so on.
seeing a "1" next to the comment section of this story is usually a pretty easy way of telling someone made a post ... not sure if that is too difficult for you to understand, but I guess so....?
Here we go again! The General may have to address the needs of those "poor" Muslims. Every one is out to get those "poor" Muslims. Muslims are for peace! They use excuses like its Israels fault or America's or the Wests. Its never the fault of Muslims.
Explain to me then why Muslims are fighting in the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Malaysia or China? Muslims can't even get along with themselves! Look at Pakistan. Look at Muslim Syria committing genocide against the Druids (a religion older than Islam). Look at Muslims killing Muslims in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, (again) Pakistan, Hamas fighting the PLO, Shiites fighting Sunni's, Muslims trying to rid the earth of all Sabaean Mandeans. Muslims fighting Muslim Tunisa, Mauritania, Serbia, Nigeria. The killing of hundreds of thousands in Somalia & Sudan, etc. I could keep naming countries Muslims are fighting with or governments Muslims are fighting, or every religion Muslims are fighting but instead will summarize:
Muslims are fighting in one form or another in 75 -80 different countries. Put another way, that means Muslims are fighting in over 40 percent of the worlds 194 (+ or -1) countries. Not good at Numbers? - try attacks on 6 of the worlds 7 continents. Muslims claim they are fighting the West. Wait a second, the Philippines, China, Thailand, Nigeria, Somalia, Spain, etc will tell you different. From a type of government point of view, Muslims are fighting Communist governments, Dictatorships, democracies, right on down the line.
Muslims claim its a fight against Jews. Yet, they are fighting Buddhist's, Taoist's, Secular governments, Christians, druids, Hindus, and so forth.
In short, Muslims are fighting the entire world - not "just" Israel or the Us or the West.) All the above is fact not conjecture. Go try to convince some one else that Muslims are peaceful!
At least these people aren't terrorists. The Burmese government's oppressive, but my guess is that they oppressed Muslims a little more than they oppressed Buddhists.
peaceful muslims what a crock, LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,Buddist's can be real bad asses,I hope they eliminate these terrorists.and my condolences for the Buddist losses.I think there needs to be an organisation like the UN designed where all the different religions join,to eliminate terrorist religions.
When Muslims invent problems, it is always the fault of others!
Even when they kill each other as in Syria, Pakistan and other places, it is all Zionist, US and West conspiracies.
Even the Paki terrorist plans and attacks in the US are due to problems by people of the US.
By the by, 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy!
NAYPYIDAW – Myanmar's government has appointed a minister and senior police chief to head an investigation into the killing of 10 Muslims by a Buddhist mob that resulted in a flare-up of sectarian violence in the country's Westernmost state.
"There occurred organized, lawless and anarchic acts that can harm peace, stability and rule of law in Rakhine state in May and June," said a statement on the front page of The New Light of Myanmar, the government's mouthpiece, Agence France Presse (AFP) reported on Thursday, June 7.
freedman1: Why don't you people do these countings in Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan and other places?
What is the big deal about 10 Muslims?
Do you people wake up only Muslims are hurt?
At one time I was keeping up with the numbers. This list is about 5 years old. It is much worse now. Nigeria= 10,000+ Sudan=2 million, Indonesia=19,00 killed with 600,000 Christians displaced. Lost the numbers to South Asia, Pakistan, Bangladesh,India and Thailand. Now you can add all the "Arab Spring" numbers from all those countries. Where there are Muslims they try to kill all others. They do as they did in Lebanon. Muslims from other countries come in to help with the killings so a radical Islamic govenment can take over. Now they are trying to get enough numbers in all European countries and the US to attempt the same thing here. Radical Muslims rush to the latest conflict in order to get radicals in the government. I certainly wouldn't be sending our money to any of those countries as long as fighting and killings are going on. You are just abetting the killing.
bevvar: Look at freedman's posts.
For human rights groups, UN and its agencies, Amnesty International and other cheap agents of Saudis, oil companies and other interests with monies to through around, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists are not regarded as humans.
Millions of Hindus were killed by Pak soldiers in the current Bangladesh and during 47-50, millions of Hindus again were killed in the current Pakistan.
But all these cheap agents were dead silent in those times. Are they humans first?
Jonathan,
I AGREE- thanks for the stats but it wasn't THAT bad some 12-14 Million exchanged both ways over the new pak-india border with about a Million dead. At least there was A Settlement AND an "even" exchange of population.
There's a few bbc documentaries on You-tube and a lovely free docudrama on Hulu about the "Partion".
Compare that with "Palestine" were Muslims can near eradicate and kick out all Jews from "Their Lands" but remain in the Jewish Mandate areas. Them keep Muslims in prison camps located on Muslim countries... and blame it on Israel. Imagine Pakistan throwing nearly every non Muslim out but every muslim remaining in India and continuing to whine and cause trouble. (now they vacation there... to shoot up hotels only taking time out from their busy schedule to find & kill a few Jews in a dinky house lost in some Mumbai backwater). btw: The Palestinians get their very own special $$-bloated UN refugee agency.....all the other refugees. Tibetans, Sudanese-millions!, etc can eat poot- they barely get a mention on MSN unless a few dozen light themselves on fire, then maybe a brief paragraph taht disappears as fast.
Remember the Muslims started as the largest by far "minority in India" that were convinced that they would have zero say in the new secular (THATS the naughty word) India. So they had to ferment a rebellion that could only be appeased by giving them "Their Land".
Ixor Kleb: You are not well informed on partition of India and Pakistan.
95 percent of Muslims voted for Pakistan.
After partition in 1947, most of Muslims (who voted for Pakistan) in the current Indian region stayed back in India. At that time Muslim percentage was eight percent.
Currently, Muslims form at least 15 percent in India.
In Pakistan, at the time of partition of India, Hindus, Sikhs and others formed about 25 percent. Within two years most of them terrorized, kidnapped, converted, killed and driven out. Now they hardly form two percent.
Story is similar in the current Bangladesh. The process of genocides of minorities in Bangladesh is a slow on going one.
The Muslims are creating problems in Myanmar after sneaking in with different Ramadan style soap operas.
Palestinians and Israels are beyond my brain. They are too smart for likes of me.
About Israelis and Jewish lobbyists it most difficult to figure out what they want and whom they work for. Even the mad men like Netanyahos can beat all religious loonies hollow!
Look at the zeal with which some cheap paid agents like freedmans are doing their posts! I don't notice them in other places.
WTF is wrong with people?
Not sure if I'm still under BigBen's post ...but I agree. For some reason I have a feeling this is the Muslims fault, and if it is, take em' out. I have nothing against any religion, but it just seems they fight everywhere they go ...if thats their religion, screw em.
The religion of peace strikes again! Aww, I'm sure they're just "misinterpreting" certain verses in the Quran is all, you know, taking it out of context and all that jazz.
Buddhist vigilantes in western Myanmar have attacked a bus and killed nine Muslims in one of the deadliest communal violence in the country.
"More than a hundred people beat and killed those people. The residents even torched the bus," a villager told Agence France-Presse (AFP).
A bus carrying Muslim passengers was attacked near Taunggoke town in the western state of Rakhine late Sunday, June 3.
Good. The Buddists are fighting back after hundreds were killed by the Muslims. It is the only way. Fight for your lives.
The only thing the Islamist terror groups are acomplishing is bringing in a body count for the purpose of generating free world news organization press releases. MSNBC News and all other big world news organizations are serving the needs of the terrorists by publishing and reporting their evil deeds. As long as you news people keep accomodating the terror groups with free press they will continue as they have. As soon as you big news organizations STOP reporting and publishing their acts of violence they will realize it does not work anymore to commit those atrocities, because the acts of terror fail to generate free press, if the world news organizations simply ignore the terrorist's actions.
Rohingya Muslims have been denied citizenship rights since an amendment to the citizenship laws in 1982 and are treated as illegal immigrants in their own home.
Every year, thousands of minority Muslim Rohingyas flee Myanmar in wooden boats, embarking on a hazardous journey to Thailand or Malaysia in search of a better life.
While some find work as illegal laborers, others are arrested, detained and "repatriated" to a military-ruled country that washed its hands of them decades ago.
Rohingyas say they are deprived of free movement, education and employment in their homeland.
They are not recognized as an ethnic minority by Myanmar and say they suffer human rights abuses at the hands of government officials.
@Freedman1, thank you for the info. But this is when the middle east / islamic nations should step in and offer them citizenship or asylum. Of course they dont.
even the buddhists hate the satin worshippers (muslims)
A satin-woven fabric tends to have a high luster due to the high number of floats on the fabric. Floats are missed interlacings, where the warp yarn lies on top of the weft yarn, or vice versa. The floats tend to make the fabric look glossier as well as give it a smoother surface.
Muslims don't appear to ever really become happy.
A United Nations envoy has expressed deep concern about the persecution of Myanmar's Muslims by the authorities. "There is no doubt that there is severe discrimination of Muslims," the UN special rapporteur for human rights in Myanmar, Tomas Ojea Quintana, said after visiting the west of the country where Muslims are concentrated.
"There have been many allegations levelled at the authorities, so it was important for me to be able to see the situation firsthand," he said. While he was there he also visited a prison, which was a real revelation, he said during an interview on the weekend. "The prison was full of women, some still nursing their young children," he said. Most had been charged with immigration offences and received sentences of up to five years. But human-rights groups believe they are victims of the government's ban on Muslims marrying.
Would you be happy if you couldn't walk down the street and see a pretty girl? And your religion tells you to kill and be a martyr so you might get to see some pretty virgins? Crazy. I'm a old woman but I wouldn't be happy if I lived under a restrictive Muslim rule. I like to see young people walking around the mall and other places.
The Persian Gulf Complex - in Iran - is the third largest mall in the world.
The Dubai Mall - in UAE - is the sixth largest mall in the world.
The West Edmonton Mall - in Canada - is the eighth largest mall in the world.
The Mall Of America - United States - is the twentieth largest mall in the world.
Vincent Tan’s dream of building the world's largest shopping mall is coming true with the Great Mall of China project, comprising a retail mall, an indoor water theme park, a family theme park and an extreme park.
In that case I think bevvar meant: "walk around a non-potemkin-mall with wife-sanshijab or if not "wife suspects that some-how there are people in the same mall that would have her in one if they had their way: not a recipe for true, care-free shopping experience, eh?
When most don't care for religion much these days, followers of Islamic cult, especially Sunnis, are fast marching backwards to their seventh century desert tribal days of rapings, lootings, killings and genocides of non-Muslims.
We see Muslims inventing problems in most of the non-Muslim nations.
Was the air travel as tough in the US about 25 years back as it is now?
When Muslims are inventing problems in Myanmar as in Thailand, Philippines and other places, what is new thing about "image"?
Most of the Muslims in Myanmar are from Bangladesh. These Muslims have ruined Bangladesh beyond repair and now they are sneaking or creeping into neighboring nations.
Even in the US, we can notice these actions!
Better wake up before it is too late on inventions of problems by followers of Islamic cult!
Because the authorities refuse most Rohingyas permission to marry, many live together after a traditional Muslim ceremony. The children born from these couples are denied registration and citizenship - making them non-persons. UN special rapporteur for human rights in Myanmar, Tomas Ojea Quintana took up the issue of citizenless children in his last report to the UN in November and pressed representatives of the regime on it again during this visit, but with little result.
"The issue of unregistered children is serious as their numbers keep growing," Chris Lewa, director of the Arakan Project, said. "What is the future of these children? Without being registered, they won't be able to apply for a travel permit, marriage, and so on. They are all potential refugees." Mr Quintana's visit to Rakhine was a significant concession by the regime. "I received a lot of independent information from various sources before I went there, and I find them very credible."
Probably what the American Natives were thinking about the Christian invaders about four hundred years ago, and they were right ! Religion is all about intolerance and hatred, all organized religion.
Jonathon, you are so 100% right.
bevvar: I agree with religion is opium of masses. But many Muslims have become heavy dosage heroin addicts.
I have never seen an angry Buddhist.
The question was asked long time ago: What good has the Islam ever brought to the human race? Can anyone answer that at all?
What good has Shinto ever brought to the human race? Can anyone answer that at all?
Actually, early Islam was almost a wholly intellectual movement and made vast advances in the sciences, not to mention translated and preserved many of the earlier classic works of culture that Christians looked to burn and destroy as heresy.
Just look up "The Golden Age of Islam" ... you may be surprised.
Sadly, yes ... Islam was corrupted by a single ideologue who pushed a more militant view of the faith, hence the troubles we see today.
That would be mohammud
That would be as intellectual as the working end of a sword can be.
example: India:
"Islam Destroyed Ancient Universities of India"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wF-pqIyI6Q
Ixor
I take it you chose not to look up "The Golden Age of Islam"
During this period, Muslims made vastly greater strides in the sciences than their Christian counterparts who, ironically enough, were too busy destroying classical works at an astounding rate.
You're not going to get me to defend the atrocities of the sword committed by Muslims anymore than you will get me to defend the atrocities of the sword committed by Christians. Perhaps you didn't pick up on the fact that I'm an atheist and would personally like to see the end of all such supernatural nonsense.
I was in the US conciliate here in Bangkok to get some paper work when, while waiting, I spoke to two young men that said they were Mormon Missionaries, they told me they were there to try and convert people. I asked them who they were converting and they said Buddhists. I asked him why convert the peaceful people that would harm no one, why not go down south and convert the Muslims as they are the problem not the Buddhists. He just looked at me.... I really did not have it in me to tell him that Christianity was near as bad.
The Buddhist Monk in the picture was misbehaving too...as a man of god, his god, he should have spoken out against the violence. Isn't that what men of god do? Isn't that what they are SUPPOSED to do? In ANY religion? If they do not...then they aren't who they say they are. If their clergy spoke out against the violence, many true believers would stop, the rest should get what they deserve. Religion isn't about war, but many want it to be, and those should be singled out and punished.
First off Kevin they dont worship a God, its more a set of values, or a way of living. Second, the Monks are not stupid, once the violence breaks out they dont just throw themselves on the fire to try and put it out. Third, once one of your loved ones is killed, your house burnt down, it is very hard not to strike back. If your at all interested you could read "The Teachings of Buddha" Im not saying Im a Buddhist, or that you should become one, just that it is a very interesting belief system and that if every person were to take just a part of it to heart there would be a much better place to live on earth.
Almost all Buddhist books contain this prophecy. It is in Chakkavatti Sinhnad Suttanta D. III, 76:
"There will arise in the world a Buddha named Maitreya (the benevolent one) a holy one, a supreme one, an enlightened one, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious, knowing the universe:
"What he has realized by his own supernatural knowledge he will publish to this universe. He will preach his religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at its climax, glorious at the goal, in the spirit and the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and thoroughly pure; even as I now preach my religion and a like life do proclaim. He will keep up the society of monks numbering many thousands, even as now I keep up a society of monks numbering many hundreds".
Maitreya's coming is characterized by a number of physical events. For example, the oceans are predicted to decrease in size, allowing Maitreya to traverse them freely. These events will also enable the reintroduction of the "true" dharma to the people, in turn allowing the construction of a new world.
His arrival signifies the end of the middle time, the time between fourth Buddha, Gautama Buddha, and the fifth Buddha, Maitreya, which is viewed as a low point of human existence. According to the Cakkavatti Sutta: The Wheel-turning Emperor, Digha Nikaya 26 of the Sutta Pitaka of the Pāli Canon), Maitreya Buddha will be born in a time when humans will live to an age of eighty thousand years, in the city of Ketumatī (present Benares), whose king will be the Cakkavattī Sankha. Sankha will live in the palace where once dwelt King Mahāpanadā, but later he will give the palace away and will himself become a follower of Maitreya Buddha.
God teaches peace, the muslims god who ever he or she mabe teaches to kill everyone who doesn't believe like they do.
god
ryan kuehn, Yes, and all of the other religions of the world are so tolerant, right ? All religions and those who follow them are hateful and crazy !
MM-584706 I have to disagree. Although I don't have much use for ANY organized religion. I find problems with all of them as the rules are man made therefore prone to some errors. But most religions do more good than harm. I do find a lot of Jesus' words more to my liking. Love one another. Do no harm, etc.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
"Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
Buddhists are not fighting with Muslims ,,the fighting is just between Myanmar nations and Rohingya..so called Bagali.
IS IT THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD behind this story? As i have posted before you can not trust the Muslim brotherhood they are behind so many of the out breaks of war and if it were me i would take a gun and kill as many of them as i could, because they are evil and only out to take over every area of the world they can and i mean every area, so watch out USA they are here and they will do the same here. MARK MY WORDS
This is a shining example of the effects of organized religion on humans. It divides them into separate groups & teaches hate under the guise of serving a god. Some are more blatant in their hate mongering. None are good for the people who follow the leaders of any religious institution. All are bad for the "infidel" neighbors. Until we accept the fact that there is no person on earth who knows more about "God" than any other & stop contributing to the existence of these truly evil institutions we will never evolve into a society able to meet the needs of all it's members needs & grow into our full potential.
Wallace...100% spot on!
The very next time a muslim starts defending their peaceful religion, stone them. Peaceful, my arse. These radicalized malcontents will not rest until they are laid to rest in a pigsty.
Like thousands of Rohingya Muslims, Abdul Rahim could not erase the disturbing images of his life under Myanmar authorities.
He still recalls nights in which he was snatched from bed to help build roads, cut down trees and perform other hard labor at a Myanmar military camp.
"In Myanmar we can never sleep. Now we can sleep here," he said.
"Forced labor, marriage restrictions, restrictions on movement and arbitrary arrests continue." ~ Chris Lewa, director of Bangkok-based The Arakan Project, an advocacy group monitoring the Rohingya.
Afghanistan was once Buddhist. The Muslim invasion wiped out the Buddhist culture. The Taliban recently destroyed the giant twin Bamiyan Buddhist statues that were carved out of a sandstone cliff 1500 years ago. The statues were an historical fusion of vestigial hellenistic art and culture, and the emerging religion of Buddha. The defacing vandalism of the statues by Muslims began in the 9th century, after the Islamic Military conquests. The Buddhists were far less aggressive, and ultimatly were pushed out of thier own land.
Perhaps the people of Myanmar are simply aware of the emergent aggression of Islam on it's borders. If one adopts the same methods as the aggressors, then I suppose there is an equality among aggression. The people of Manymar have evidence of Islamic emergent behavior to support thier position.
“Folks gotta’ remember this is … a country that has no independent judiciary system,” said John Sifton, the Asia advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.
Myanmar tied with Afghanistan as the second most corrupt country in the world last year, according to the corruption-tracking group Transparency International. “The corruption is rampant,” said Sifton. “The revenue is completely off the books.”
Charles You're right.
Here is a slide show of the remains of the sculptures. The photographs are wonderful. It's shameful that these ancient treasures were destroyed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12674541
Chefaz,
thanks for the link
Here's another one to add to the collection:
Islam Destroyed Ancient Universities of India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wF-pqIyI6Q
then there is the sad story of (the original, that is) of the University at Jundi-Shapur in Ancient Persia destroyed by "early" Islam.
I was very much aware of ancient animosities between the muslims and Indians of other religions but I had no idea how long and how far back the tentacles reached. I could have cried watching this desecration of Indian culture and education not to mention all the lives lost. Thanks very much, Ixor. I hope everyone that sees your post will take a few minutes to check out this link.
freedman wants freedom for israel and sharia law in the USA not just dearborn
Religious zealots causing trouble and violence, who would have ever thought that could happen ?
Of course there is fighting. Islam wants the whole world, one nation at a time! And if the other group gets mad and fights, stands up for themselves, doesn't want to be overtaken, etc, it is portrayed as if "both sides are equally as bad" or "they both have equal rights to that country" etc. Sickening.
@freedman1,
Why don't you cite the source(s) that you keep cutting and pasting from throughout these comments.
Take the comments you might be interested in - then paste into your favorite search engine to reveal more info, Adam.
The religion of the illegal kenyan born pro gay potus; honor killings, bombings and using children to blow up others, acid in the face, beheadings, torching churches, female circumcision, the ragheads are on a march for world domination and any infidel needs to die. We have over 500 mosques here in usa and they were all celebrating the 9/11 killings of our citizens and chanting death to Americans. Shariah law is coming to a neighborhood near you, just ask Europe how peace loving the barbarians are; Not
Yup the greatest threat to peace today: Muslims. In their minds if you are not a Muslim then you are the enemy, period.
They can bitch all they want about profiling in this country but that is what they are presenting to the world.
They think they are entitle to come into this country or any country for that matter and demand that their religion be part of our laws. That is why KS. took steps already to make sure that does not happen.
K.S.??
I think a better heading would be.."Aggressive Buddhists attack Muslims"
Because we all know that Muslims are innocent wonderful people that can do no wrong.
Right democrats?