Oh, hey, come ON, Eric...as much as we might disagree with these Ultra-Orthodox Jews they are still not blowing up buses and shopping malls, a la Hamas.

Hamas is obviously worse, but what I don't understand is how any large segment of Jews could be so against military service when they live in the middle east. Its one thing for the Amish and other such religious groups to refuse to serve in the USA, they make up a relatively small part of the population and are not in any imminent danger.

Meanwhile this move in Israel is obviously because they are worried about their place in the region, and with rockets flying into the country on a regular basis how can you really refuse to fight for your nation and countrymen?

I belive the Torah only exempts the tribe of Levi from military service.

@ Eric: You are preaching to the choir here brother. I have long been against the entitlements the UO Jewish feel that they automaticaly and freely deserve. I am happy to see this article as I have had long debates over this. This goes much deeper than service to the country, it also goes to welfare,and living of others taxes.

@ Cassandra;

Oh, hey, come ON, Eric...as much as we might disagree with these Ultra-Orthodox Jews they are still not blowing up buses and shopping malls, a la Hamas.

Yes Cassandra but they love to incite it. The UO Jewish behind the scenes gets people worked up over things on both sides. When there is chaos they seem to have more reason to exist. They are the instigators of many battles between Palestine and Hamas, and Israel. They truly do not want peace,just as Hamas does not, only because they become less relevant, which would fine by me on both sides.

Secular Israel are tired of feeding them, and letting them out of required service. One core reason why Israel remains tough in the midst of many enemies.

Actually, Coral Taxi, the UO Jews seem much more interested in inciting their own fellow Jews. No more pro-Palestinian agitprop, please.

@ Cass; Umm I believe I included them when I said Israel. This has been a long time coming, and is the beginning of the end of the free ride for the UOs. Pro Palestine? Think again.

Cassandra : Remember a few months ago?

The UO were giving little non UO Jewish school girls hell, for showing their ankles.

By the way. They think they are THE Jews. The Sudanese ???No they don't think so.

I doubt they consider reformed to be Jews at all.

However, they still don't seem to mind those others branches, defending their land & property in the military.

Excellent point! It sure looks like Israel has their problem with freeloader scum in their own house.

Yes Hasidic Jews do not blow up buses. But Hasidic Jews do harass and abuse women. Hasidic Jews treat their women/wives like second class citizens. The women are not allowed to drive or talk to any other man besides a relative or their husbands. Hasidic Jews are rude group of people. I had one almost run over my child in a stroller. They would even look at me when I confronted the couple. They acted like My child and I was not even there. Hasidic Jews are Rude, Racist, Discriminating and are Anti- anybody who is not a Hasidic Jews.

I am NOT anti-semitic. I AM a Jew, I had my Bar mitzvah at the Walling Wall in Jerusalem. I am just talking about my experience dealing with Hasidic Jews. I live nearby a Hasidic Jews community. The Hasidic Jews do not even consider me Jewish because I am not Hasidic.

Hardly God like,no matter how many verses they memorize.

While I'm not a great believer in conscription, if Israel has mandatory military service, why are the Haredim exempt? They take an inordinate amount of government resources and give back nothing but tsouris, with their mysogyny and narrow-minded hatred of less religious Jews of every stripe. If they are claiming some kind of conscientious objectorship, let them do desk work or other support work to free up other troops to fight. Wait...oh, no...they're don't have enough secular education to type or wield a broom...just to make dozens of babies...Never mind (the last was sarcasm)

Eric, to be fair the Chabad/Lubovitch Chassidic Jews aren't so bad or isolated. Most are not only very welcoming of Jews, but will welcome non-Jews who wish to learn or observe.

As for the non-Lubovitch Chassidic Jews, I'm inclined to agree. There are 2 groups in Brooklyn - one wear black socks, the others white socks - and from what I understand, they don't even like each other.

One must realize or the Jewish community as a whole, that what you wear (as long as you are wearing something,lol) does not matter, your hair does not matter. What matters is if you are clean(physically). Setting yourself apart as the UO is arrogant at best. The style goes beyond identity, and seems to give them a sense of entitlemet others are not privy to.

The cander and actions of the UO irks me to no end. Your value and worth are equal to mine and the rest of the world.I have taught my kids from an early age that they are never to good to die for their country, and to never feel others should have to scarifice and that they do not.

Once you start feeling your life is more valuable than your neighbors you will have become arrogant,and puffed up more than you should be.

Remember always "man made the money,money never made the man"LL. cool J.

ROFLMAO....

Best post of the day! Probably of the year!

I didn't know nuts could be religious, but if they were, mine would be into Scientology

Those parasites: they enjoy the safety of Israel and the money they receive from the tax payers and, still, they criticize the country that give them teh freedom of their unproductive living

That sounds a lot more like what we think of jews in US and who support isreal.

Ab Ab.who are "we" in your ranting? I doubt you live in the U.S..more likely Iran or Pakistan.. And if you do live in the U:S.. the " we" sounds more like terrorists groups like alquida, talebans,hamas and hezbollah...but I know you don´t speak for most U.S people who rightly support the Jews and Israel.Using "we" for a handful or maybe more than a handful of muslims in the U:S who shout "allah allah" is a ridicilous lie . And "jews and israel" must be put in CAPITAL letters,out of respect and also for the laws of English.If not you must suffer for.. muslim,allah and mohammed in normal letters.Get the idea? If you really live in the U.S you should report to the local immigration office or the F:BI for deportation or prison ( if you have committed a crime?)The U:S doesn´t need muslim finatics shouting " allah, allah or "mohammed,mohammed" in their mist.You are probably in teheran now..but in case you aren´t,get thee there soon!

Abdallah:

You comment is insulting to all Jews in the US.

What have you done lately to contribute to the United States, if you live here. Jews are great supporters of the United States; many coming from lands of Persecution from ancient times, up to today, Europe, Spain, Israel, etc. (I'm sure you know this) They know the meaning of life, being able to live, thus making the best of what is offered here---contributors to Science, Medicine, Research, Engineering, Teaching, Business, Media, and new Tech development, helping others. What is your gripe?

The US doesn't need more Bigotry..

.

Jewish organizations and money have bought our government, no congressman or senator dare voice any criticism of Israel or they are out the next election cycle. Just look at how the Israels prime minister was treated at a joint session of congress, they practically worshiped him. Unfortunately this means that Israeli interests are put above our countries interests and its the tail wagging the dog. A lot if not most of the problems the US has with the middle east can be laid at our policy of giving Israel anything it wants.

You comment is insulting to all Jews in the US.

March,

I said "jews who support isreal".

"We" means US citizens who seek US interests first in any world affair..

As for the contributions of jews to US:

Science , tech, medicine,r research etc all good.

How about bernie Madoff? Jack Abramoff?

Just watch Marican greed program at CNBC; Parade of jews one after another...

And those are the ones whoi were caught! I do not wnat to think how many thousands out there..

Get real.

Those are not good citizens of US. They support oppression of palestinians, and making many enemies for the US in muslim world. We go to wars and lose trillions and brave contry boys in the process....

Abdallah Abdallah:

???????????????????????????????????????????????

CRAZY, TAINTED BELIEFS. You HATE JEWS. Be proud of your Anti-Semitism.

There is no room for people like you in the United States---move----The US, land of the Free, and a Melting Pot of all Ethnicity's. Study the KORAN. It is the religion of Peace. Aha.

Square Dude:

Israel has not been given anything from this Administration, by Pres. Obama. Nothing.

Israel no longer relies on the US Government for anything, anymore. There is no more support from the present President. Israel stands alone in a Chaotic Middle East who does not value human life, only the Terrorists who want everyone in the "ditch".

CRAZY, TAINTED BELIEFS. You HATE JEWS. Be proud of your Anti-Semitism.

Actually, I love jews. I even had a jewish girlfriend long time ago.

Jews were reasonable human beings then.

Right now, I find hyenas more friendly and compassinate compared to jews.

Abdallah Abdallah:

One Hyena finds another Hyena. You are on the right track for finding one..

@martin bart...... And "jews and israel" must be put in CAPITAL letters,out of respect and also for the laws of English....

Righteous people have little respect or no respect for israel which is a zionist rogue state for her belligerent attitude and war mongering posture in the middle east.

Henrich:

You do not understand the history/dynamics of the Middle East, whatsoever.

When were you last persecuted, tortured, executed for no reason, or starved to death?. Look up the meaning of Persecution in the Dictionary.

Zionist Rogue State, my behind. Look what is going on in the entire Middle East now with the Arab Spring. Do the fierce Dictators listen to their people? The People are willing to die, shed blood, get Slaughtered to find some kind of Freedom and Democracy for their future generations.. Do you understand that?

Marchant:

This is precisely what Palestinians are doing, fighting against occupation and oppression inflicted on them by the rogue zionist state. In the course of their struggle for freedom they are willing to die, shed blood, get slaughtered to find some kind of freedom for their future generation...Do you understand that?

Your comments are very misinformed. Let's leave it at that. You do not know your history or willing to accept it re: the Middle East and Israel.

israel's legitimacy or her right to exist is never in question.

However israel should withdraw to 1967 border and dismantle all illegal settlement, end the siege in Gaza and peacefully co-exists with the Palestinian state, that is if israel allow such a state to be established without creating obstacles in the first place.This is the Middle East and israel.

Heinrich:

Israel already has gone back to the border of 1967---look it up---right now Palestine is almost in the inside of the State of Israel--look that up. There are Palestinians living in Israel, and Arabs as well.

israel and Palestine: the map tells the true story.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html

israel's stealing of Palestine land continues after 1967 and unabated

The map tells you nonsence.

Are you claiming that the West Bank was never part of Jordan, Gaza was never part of Egypt and Golan Hights were never part of Lebanon, because that's what the map tells?

Also, you ignore the part why Israel grew since the recreation. Israel was repeatedly attacked, and won more land in the wars they did not start.

Israel never stole anything, it's not staeling to take grownd when you are attacked and forced to defend yourself. In a war you have to take ground or you die where you stand.

As for the 1967 borders, Israel already had those borders in 1967, and they were attacked, so obvoiusly Palestinians and Arab states don't like those borders. Thus, Israel might as well keep the borders they have.

If Palestinians are tired of loosing ground in this pointless war, they are welcome to negotiate for peace any time.

Eli:

Fabulous response to Heinrich who KNOWS nothing, and does not want to accept the truth about Israel.

"You did good"!---EXCELLENT Response, just excellent!

1967--the Days of the Yom Kippur War, also called (The 7 Day War)---Israel Attacked first, fought back, led by General Moshe Dayan, Gen. David Elazar, and Leader of Israel, Golda Meir---Brilliant Israeli Military Leaders!

Thank you Marchant,

Although, I already know what Henrich's response is going to be. He is going to tell us that Israel attacked first just out of thier general evilness. That there was never any threat. All those tank at the Egyptian border were just out for a joy ride, all those leaders on the radio were just goofing around.

You see, some of the Israel-bashers are not really ignorant, they are knowingly trying ot bend the truth.

Eli:

Thanks for the last comments. When there is an Article about Israel, one can expect the worst. There are many who obviously are anti-Israel, along with being Anti-American. This is the first time, an Administration has ignored, and snubbed a Country/State of Israel, the only Democracy in the Middle East.

It is a sad connotation on all the rampant Anti-Semitism that has hit the Global World in the last few years.

Most do not know any facts re: the Jewish People, Israel, and the need to Survive. None--it is somewhat interesting to see the comments, because it is always the same Rhetoric---Israel, and the hated Zionists--not all Jews are Zionists--Assumptions, blaming everything on the Jewish Media, Jewish people. They are "picked" on as Scapegoats for something else. What?

It is great communicating with you--your comments blew me away!.

Two clowns and two trolls paid by the zionist propaganda machine make the perfect odd couple.

israel continues to steal arab land with illegal settlement expansion

And behold the only arguments pro-palestinians ever had in their favor: name-calling and meaningless slogans.

Archeim:

It is Mandatory for all Israeli's to serve their country from the age of 18.

They cannot take advantage of the Freedoms of Israel, and not being active Patriots to the survival of Israel. Over 2,000 years of living backwards living in ancient times. It doesn't work anymore when your Homeland is in Crisis all the time.

Of course, this is my opinion. They are not war fighters, but must participate.

Arch... one of your best comments in a long time (not that any are bad, this one is just that good)

Is it me or is anyone else here amazed by the seeming power that the name Israel has in the media these days, I mean here we have a article (and a pretty crap one too) abut a bunch of Jews who don’t fully support Israel (as evidenced by their refusal to be drafted) and people are going crazy and directing large amounts of anger and venom at them for it. It really is amazing to see. Personally I think people need to chill out a bit because as far as bad news involving Israel is concerned this really isn’t that bad.

Ps correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this the same group of Jews that were reported to be against the existence of Israel until the coming of the Messiah?

That was just a part of them. There are several hassidic branches.

And I personally, believe this article tells us good news. Getting those guys into the army is long overdue.

Hey Losmuertos. You have to understand that the Haredi are growing rapidly, do not add much to the GDP, are essentially a large welfare group, and generally consider anyone not in their group to not be Jews. If changes are not made now, they will not be possible as their numbers continue to expand. They will fight any efforts towards a peace process while refusing to fight in any war that they may instigate. While they should be free to be ultra-orthodox, they need to be brought in closer to the mainstream society and find some way to contribute.

Hey Doc, I hope you are well, I will admit I am somewhat ignorant on this subject, but it sounds like to me (from what you describe) that they are a rapidly growing group of fanatics, which is never good. Still my previous post was more directed at the attitudes regarding news involving Israel as let’s face it almost any article involving Israel seems to bring out people emotions. Also I do have to say that the amount of venom I read in some of the early posts I didn’t think was called for as it was to me a bit excessive, but still I can understand why people would feel that way.

As for finding a better way to contribute I would agree (especially if they are a welfare drain like you said) however I personally am against conscription in any form, although I admit that Israel does have unique reasons to have it (although the causes of said reasons I suspect people could argue about until the end of time lol) so I think if these people are going to have to contribute then maybe it’d be better to recruit them into a “civil service” (like administration or construction) as opposed to the military. I don’t know it’s just a thought

Actually, Don,you might be thinking of the Orthodox Jews whom the terrorists killed in settlements. The victim included a little boy whose throat was cut while he lay on his Mickey Mouse pillowcase. And the Israeli Army DID clear the settlers out of those settlements that were illegal.

I certainly disagree vehemently with the Ultra-Orthodox on this issue...but please don't drag in the usual pro-Palestinian agitprop.

you're right cassandra, they are nothing but moral people. nice try to keep it not pro-palestine, but you throw in an act by a sick man and try to turn it pro-israel. not buying it at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znMaYEvE4aI

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/ultra-orthodox-jews-push-for-non-employment-of-arabs/

http://jfjfp.com/?p=25323

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8buh8gIrzg

http://www.allvoices.com/news/12184924-ultraorthodox-jews-turn-out-by-the-hundreds-for-accused-sex-offender

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=73d_1312922295

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h7RLUyHxQ4tla-w39UbgTpyJM2GQ

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8978325/Clashes-erupt-between-police-and-ultra-Orthodox-Jews-near-Jerusalem.html

Just an irregualr act by a madman? I think you meant to say two madmen.

Tell me did those two receive any condemnation from their community?

No one was trying to harbor them, right?

How about that attack on the highway, the one where a pregnant woman was killed?

Also just a random act by a couple madmen? Just like all the suisidal bombings and rocket attacks.

You have done a pretty good job of collecting examples of ultra-orthodox acting like idiots, but not one case of them killing someone.

I know there is a couple of pros on this thread who will be happy to put together a collection of killngs by Israellis, but all those examples will consist of case of terrorists killed in self defence, accidents caused by provocations and military retaliation at the level when there are no specific targets.

No, Israellis are not perfect, and especially not the orthodox, but even they wont help you make the followers of Hamas and Fatah look good.

eli, my point was and still is, the uo's are a violent group, they cause a lot of problems with both the palestines and the israelis. they drain from israel and contribute nothing. maybe i went a little overboard when cassandra pulled her usual stuff

bart, don is saying (imho) that they have no problems using guns or violence, but they refuse to serve in the army that protects them. kind of an oxymoron...

or let them serve their time picking up garbage on the side of the road with draft dodger tshirts on. we should do the same for all able people on welfare here, just a different tshirt!

Once again, this other Cassandra shares my name...but not many of my views.

Have no problem with Cass 854. The same cannot be said for martin bart. Both are staunch supporters/defenders of israel, but the latter lacks class.

Can't bring back the draft, too many Muslims here now who will claim religious exemption, too many illegals who will be glaringly walking the streets while citizens are in uniforms and in the service, women are now as open to being drafted as young men, leaving millions of parentless babies that would be left in foster care, and the frosting on the cake is.....

Giving amnesty to those who ran from the draft during the VietNam war era set a precedent. Illegals openly protesting and getting what they want set a precedent.

There aren't enough jails and prisons and tent cities in this country to hold the youth that would refuse to be drafted with the bullcrap wars we have been fighting.

But of course we can't raise taxes to pay for this additional military.

Do you also suggest a clean shave for the Arabs?

The UO hasidic jews need a decent haircut, get rid of the strips of hair dangling on either side of the face..

Really, what is that? And isrealis mocking the afghans and other arabs as" towelheads"..

Towelheads look like Brad Pitt in comparison to girlie looking, hairy hasidic jews. They just need pom poms

I'll tell you what that is. Back in the MIddle Ages, the jews of Europe wer living in ghettos, with limited right and enforced dressing code, intended to maek them look the way no good christian would ever want to look.

Hasids are all about keeping old traditons (but not neccessarily remembering where those traditions come from), so they preserved the look of medieval-jew-for-christians-to-laugh-at almost pefectly.

You see, when a nation is subjegated long enough, part of it becomes permanently traumatised.

Ironically, religous Arabs preserved almost similar look, except that one comes form the time when Arabs were on top of the food chain. Life is full of paradoxes.

It's already done. They have whole medical emergency unit of Orthodox, but many of them kept resisting even that, and the rest of the country still felt like they are dodging the real deal.

When someone keep falling ot one side, you push them hard the other way, so that's what the Israeli government is doing now.