@Meanman

You certainly live up to your name!

I'm willing to bet that you will next be sympathizing with the murders who committed this crime.

Why do all you unbelievers make it your quest to bash believers every time an article is posted, or when someone expresses a genuine reaction based on their faith?

Worried?

Lord, hear our prayer for these little ones.....keep them safe from further harm, and guide us to help those who are like them.

And forgive those who claim they know you do not exist for they are ignorant, and will come to know you again one day.

I agree with you meanman... and to you Disabled, even if we exercise the notion that humans were created, it is obvious that it was a mistake and he, or it wants us now all dead and for good reason.

Ladislaver - It's good to see people of your ilk sticking together.

Have you ever heard that statement, "Misery loves company?"

Next time you post, try typing a clear, concise and intelligible statment.

I'm sure your rebuttal make sense to, let me see now, only you?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but is not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God?"

Epicurus - Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

@meanman...you are nothing but a troll. Probably a little man with a very little d**k and a coward!

go to Hell!

I agree Disabled Voter. Why couldn't meanman and the like just state that they hope compassionate people comfort these 2 kids? I know why...because they are negative trolls that thrive on conflict. They need to grow up and stop telling other people what to believe.

@Basil -

How would you define evil?

Doesn't theology argue for free moral agency?

Neither pain or suffering is intrinsically evil!

Assuming God is omnipotent, we do not have to conclude the He allows suffering because He cannot prevent it.

The same God that created man with the ability to do "evil," also created him with the power to do good.

The Epicurean argument is incomplete because it doesn't answer several vivtal questions:

• What is intrinsically evil?
• What is intrinsically good?
• What is instrumentally evil?
• What is instrumentally good?
• What should be valued?
• What should be devalued?

The argument from atheism concerning the problem of evil purposes more questions than atheists have the capacity to answer!

Disabled.. If god created man and as a result subsequently this evil man who killed so many people and children, if that is not a mistake then what is? And there is another thing, I live happy life in reality, not like you fearing a god. I fear only man like you.

Disabled: In a situation such as this the questions posed by Epicurus, though perhaps incomplete, are most relevant. I'm ceratin that neither the Chinese during the Japanese occupation nor the Jews during the holocaust nor the Rwandans during their own genocide ever asked your follow-up questions to Epicurus while they were being slaughtered. All they wanted to know was where was God when they needed him/her/it most. I'm certain that these poor children in Guatemala had the same question.

What is intrinsically evil?

What is intrinsically good?

What is instrumentally evil?

What is instrumentally good?

What should be valued?

What should be devalued?

are questions that are irrelevant to the current situatuon though from a purely philosophical viewpoint relevant for discussion under more serene circumstances.

"Neither pain or suffering is intrinsically evil!" p[erhaps but doesn't justify what happened to this family.

Disbaled: "Assuming God is omnipotent, we do not have to conclude the He allows suffering because He cannot prevent it." Perhaps you intended to say, "Assuming God is omnipotent, we do not have to conclude that He allows suffering even though he can prevent it." If your assumption is that God is omnipotent then he certainly CAN prevent it. The question is: Is he willing?

God didn't force these people to OVERPOPULATE their countries.

Remember: The middle class began when the black plague killed off one third of Europe. It gave everyone a raise because the average worker suddenly became more valuable.

@ladislaver and Basil

I notice that you have not answered the questions.

Why? Too philosophical for you?

I don't fear God, but respect Him. I didn't fear my father, but loved and respected him. I'm sorry if the religious world has painted such a horrid picture of God. I am a very happy, content and productive member of society.

The question of whether God is willing does nothing to answer the questions concerning the intrinsic nature of good and evil.

Small minds are unable to intellectually formulate and comprehend substantive reasoning.

Would you suggest that God intervene in every single instance of whatever it is you decide becomes the ultimate definition of "Evil" ?

If you then decide that God should intervene, then at what point would God be restricting man's freedom of choice? According to your unreasonable assessment, you try to box God into a package designed by you while disregarding His entire nature.

Answer the questions! Trying to deflect is not an answer.

Disabled: "The question of whether God is willing does nothing to answer the questions concerning the intrinsic nature of good and evil." Correct, I don't disagree. If your "great mind" understood my post you wouldn't be responding in this manner. Try to come down to the level of these children who aren't concerned about the philosophical underpinnings of religion. All they know is that nobody helped them while their family was being murdered and are fearful for their own future. My post was not intended to be a "be all and end all" philosophical treatise. Come down to earth man.

BTW Disabled: Just a quick P.S.: I am certain that most people would agree that "intrinsically evil" is what these murderers did to this family.

Disabled Voter: "Small minds are unable to intellectually formulate and comprehend substantive reasoning." I couldn’t say that better about you, the rational people like me do not need god to understand world around us. I bet that you have no idea why there is lighting and following thunder, you probably think that it is god expressing anger. I was once believer as a child, but as soon as I have learned basics in Biology, Physics and chemistry I have stopped believing and embraced science. For you to do the same, you need big mind, or at least to be curious an obviously you lack both. We could go on forever about this, so I will drop it right now and continue living and contributing to society in real way, (I am engineer) not the way as you buddy James Orsen "Jim" Bakker" (convicted felon) the televangelist did for example.

The corrected version of my post.

Disabled Voter: "Small minds are unable to intellectually formulate and comprehend substantive reasoning." I couldn’t say that better about you, the rational people like me do not need god to understand world around us. I bet that you have no idea why there is lighting and following thunder, you probably think that it is god expressing anger. I was once believer as a child, but as soon as I have learned basics in Biology, Physics and Chemistry I have stopped believing and embraced science. For you to do the same, you need big mind, or at least to be curious and obviously you lack both. We could go on forever about this, so I will drop it right now and continue living and contributing to society in real way, (I am engineer) not the way as your buddy James Orsen "Jim" Bakker" (convicted felon) the televangelist did for example.

Basil and Ladislaver - You have offered no credible arguments, but more of the same deflections.

Your inability to distinguish between intrinsic and instrumental evil, shows you cannot or will not answer.

I doesn't matter what people think. What people perceive or think has no bearing on the intrinsic value of evil. Evil exist because of the free moral agency of man, and not simply because something is either valued or devalued. Atheists erroneously argue that it's created by a God that doesn't exist. (i.e. Evil exists therefor God doesn't)

1. The mere fact that an action results in pain does not make it intrinsically evil.
2. A surgeon is not evil for amputating a gangrenous limb.

Why do Athiets not want to answer: What is intrinsically good? What is instrumentally good? What is intrinsically evil? What is instrumentally evil? What should be vauled? What should be devalued?

They do not want to answer because they cannot!

Ladislaver-Your response is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Grade school children use arguments such as yours. "I know what you are, but what am I?"

You'll drop it ladislaver because you have no credible arguments.

You cannot come forth with good rational answers to my questions, and so you begin your Ad Hominem attacks.

Bakker isn't my buddy, but just like a lot of uneducated responses, you think you know everything about everyone, when all you do is jump to false conclusions. I don't like Jim Bakker, never did and I firmly believe he misled a lot of misinformed people.

Your argument seems to be, Jim Bakker is bad, Jim Bakker claimed to be a Christian, There is no God.

It also seems that since you got so smart and left your faith, that you are bothered by those who still have their faith. See, I can jump to conclusion too!

These boards are filled with people from all around the world. People with various levels of age, race, social status, and educational levels.

Too many people paint others into a box they create for them. Many assume that posters are like them, or maybe even inferior.

A learned blockhead is a greater blockhead than an ignorant one - Ben Franklin

Having said that, I could furnish you with a host of earned degrees, but you still would not be willing to learn, because you have prejudiced your mind.

Information is not knowledge - Einstein

How many classes have you taken in Philosophy or Forensics?

Engineers are not Philosophers or Scientists!

Many are destined to reason wrongly; others, not to reason at all; and others to persecute those who do reason. - Voltaire

Guatemala will sell them...I mean adopt them out to US parents.

Here's what the world is comming to and it certainly appears that those in authority do not care:

Over the years humanity has aquired a taste for not only sexually abusing little children but also torturing and murdering them;

A significant and major important part of humanity--women--who are middle eastern Arabs are treated with little or no respect. Their lives are virtually worthless to the men there. They kill and murder women with impunity knowing that punishment, if any, will be minimal;

The so-called developed countries are now manufacturing weapons that can kill multitudes of people with a single explosion and hand guns that have the ability to kill 6,000 people per minute; and,

The gun manufacturers around the world (most are in the U.S.) are producing guns and arms at an all-time pace so that much more of humanity can be victims of gun violence all for the mere sake of money (greed).

Godspeed little ones. May justice prevail.

Satan is growing.

hand guns that have the ability to kill 6,000 people per minute

BS. Did you just pull the first number that came into your head and bounced around?
This is a tragedy, but don't let the drama queens coopt it for their personal reasons.

@ JEAN. that is the most embarrassing comment ive seen as far intellect goes on here....I pray for those little kids, but your comments are not well thought out.

6,000 rpm huh? which gun would that be, cause I need 1 of those.

As a gun owner i find what you say about the manufacturers do be absolutely disgusting. DO NOT blame manufacturers. Maybe with all the vehicle crashes we should ban driving, maybe with all the fat people that have heart problems from fast food, BAN GREASE! The point im making is....you sound like a fool.

Maximun and Fighthepower:

You are just utterly uninformed...period. While I was in Vietnam we had armaments capable of 3000 rounds per minute. Since then killing has progressed and they do now have 6000 per minute. They even have a handgun now that claims to have the potential to fire a millions rounds a minute using electronic pluses (no firing pin). All you have to do is check out the military channel on the web to find this out. See it for yourself. So, before you display your ignorance to the www with your thoughtless comments, stupidity and name-calling, get your facts straight, first.

Why are employees at McDonalds not aloowed to carry guns on their person at work? Killers rob restaurants. Why are factory workers not allowed to carry guns at work? Why did Republicans not allow guns at their convention? Can one carry a gun on a White House Tour? Should we all carry guns on our sides everywhere like the old West?

FightThePower-

Your analogies suck. At least if you're going to debate gun laws find some better analogies. "Fat people" are only hurting themselves and driving is a known risk you are taking when you get in your car. You are talking about guns which kill thousands of people who had no choice in the matter. You're the one who sounds like a fool.

@journaljournal - Thanks to UNICEF Guatemala is closed to adoptions, it has been for a number of years (Jan 07 I believe). So more than likely these 2 children will either go to relatives if there are any or to an orphanage. The foster parent program was practically shutdown, the people don't have enough money to adopt them. If they go to relatives it will be living in the same conditions they were before, see those shacks in the pictures, those are their homes. If they weren't already they'll spend the next 10 years or so digging through landfills looking for stuff to sell, or just looking for food. I'm sure you read some well written article about how kids were being stolen and sold to US families. Bravo, you can read. Until you experience it first hand shut-up.

That's the one that got me too. Horrible.

Tourists.

Spaniards. There's lots of "European" looking people in Guatemala. There's a lot of "African" and "Asian" looking people in Guatamala. Genes travel.

Travel to many countries south of the border and you will see many blond people. Just like Europeans settling land ( stealing land) in The U.S. there were many Italians, Spanish, Asian, French, German and even people from what is now India and Pakistan that settled in South America. They sometimes married the African descendents or they married the Native peoples and they look a little darker--sometimes the lighter genes pop up and wow --a blond. Sometimes a Blond Costa Rican marries a German-Italian Venezuelan ( like a friend of mine) and you end up with a whole family of blond haired people.

you should get out of your country more often. You'll find that the stereotypes that you see protrayed on TV are not always true.

Journal Journal,

For someone who knows so little, you seem to have so much to say.

We don't 'sell' babies down here. There *WAS* a problem between desperate parents looking to adopt, and a few crooked attorneys down here. That was stopped. There has been 1 foreign adoption in Guatemala in the last 5 years or so, and that was with the intervention of an American senator, and the President of our Republic.

Yes, the children 'look' white. It even surprised me, since I live here. My own children look stereotypically latino. There are actually not many truly 'white' Guatemalans. Half our population is indigenous, and the other half is heavily mixed, but rarely favoring european bloodlines. Guatemala is very different from places like Mexico City, or Buenos Aires in that regard.

By the way, I even have my picture as my avatar. I am actually of northern-European descent. Do I look as 'white' as those children? No.

mtlgreer, You really sound like you care.

saymagsmom:

I took a look at the Human Development Index chart I made from 20 years of UN statistics and Guatemala is one of the poorest countries in Latin America. Mexico is one of the richest as there are 125 countries poorer then they are. Mexicans are famous for their acting ability to weasel money out of ignorant gringos. They are the reason most Americans refuse to trust anything south of the border.

Guerrillas took over your city?? Call animal control noob.

The barrio crime is borne out of poverty. I would start by cleaning out the criminals in the walled communities.

Its not about the boy being blond. Its about the ducks trying to look black.

No racial issues with me, I wasn't the one who brought up the fact that the child is blond. People seemed to be surprised/shocked that the affected children were European looking. I'm just a little white girl from the prairie, despite what conclusion you may have jumped to just because my name sounds hispanic? Analyze who truly has the racial issue.

What the hell was wrong with that comment? Can you prove it to be false? No matter whether you can or can't I don't see a thing wrong with it. Maybe YOU should SHUT IT!