Who cares? Are you really losing any sleep over the fact that someone 10,000 miles away thinks you're going to hell...

If they're pounding on your doorstep (or I guess blowing it open with C4 since this is Islam we're talking about here) that's one thing, but who really cares about what other people think?

Kinda of a parochial way at looking at the world @Kurt???

The leadership in Saudi Arabia are Wahabis. Wahabis are the theological radicals within Salafism which would be comparable to Christian fundamentalists in orientation --- conservative and fundamentalist. But Wahabis have an axe to grind with the rest of the Muslim world. The Wahhabi teachings disapprove of veneration of the historical sites associated with Islam, on the grounds that only God should be worshipped and that veneration of sites associated with mortals leads to idolatry. Many buildings associated with early Islam, including mazaar, mausoleums and other artifacts have been destroyed in Saudi Arabia by Wahhabis from early 19th century through the present day. This practice has proved controversial and has received considerable criticism from Sunni and Shia Muslims and in the non-Muslim World. But Wahabis would, if they could, level Mt Arafat (the original name of the Mount of Mercy) along with all the holy sites in Mecca and Medina. This is a bizarre twist since the Saudi Royal Family is considered the "guardians" or Mecca and Medina.

I really resent your hatred and specious garbage about Saudi Arabia. In truth a Saudi would find it much more difficult to navigate the culture here where hatred, such as your own, is not so clearly spelled out.

If you really want to visit Mecca, all you have to do is declare at a Mosque here in the US before you obtain your Saudi visa that you wish to "investigate" the religion. A local Imam will certify you and you will have a slip of paper for your passport in Arabic that is your internal passport to Mecca. After that no one will question you. It will just be assumed that you are a Muslim.

“Hate is an acid that harms the vessel in which it is stored more than the person on whom it’s poured” -Ethel Giddings Short Reed

Now I ask you --- why would any Muslim in his right mind want you visiting his holy places?

Chris, been there & done that regarding VISAs to many Middle Eastern countries including SA. That is a VERY naive risk to think cleareance to Mecca it is assumed you are Muslim, Afterall, you declare your religion by law at SA Customs on their Custom form. Yes, they ARE randomly checked, if found out not a Muslim and declared yourself a Muslim, you get a "visit' of one the Mutaween (Religious Police) prisons and you better pray for early deportation because those prisons make the Mexican Prisons look like paradise.

As for your question

Now I ask you --- why would any Muslim in his right mind want you visiting his holy places?

One would think there would be enough confidence and self esteem of those of the "Religion of Peace" to show the Infidel how great their "holy" place is to get more conversions. Instead, the kick out all other Religions via Mohammed's Military takeover of Medina and Mecca, then now place the "hate card" by the likes of you to hide behind the cover of your own hatred of other peoples. One would think the "Religion of Peace" can live in "peace" with others, but then again, they also call a hill, "Mountain of Mercy". Inshalla, one day there can actually show peace and mercy for they are lacking both.

chris - ...go to Saudi embassy and say you wish to "investigate" the religion ???? and he will get to keep his head on his shoulder in Saudi??? They will stone him in Iran, let alone in more radical Saudi.

TugboatT, can you be more specfic? First of all, I never knew Islam was a "race". My time living in SA, I knew no one there that claimed their race as "Islam" but rather Arab for almost all SA citizens. Rather, it's unbelievable how downright people resort to play the "race card" when race is not even an issue in the discussion.

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I mean "hateful religious bigotry by self-righteous jerks". That explains it a little better than "racist" I think.

Thanks for clarifying TugboatT, Yep a lot of "hateful religous bigotry by self-righteous jerks" in Medina and Mecca for any NON-Muslim is entirelly banned from entering those cities. The Jewish Community in Mecca and Medina were kicked out centuries ago which most of whom fled South to modern day Yemen which in turn where kicked out of Yemen in 1948 after the formation of the state of Isreal.

Well, looks like you're gonna have to suck it up then. I didn't realize how badly you wanted to go there. Find me a religion that doesn't have a bad history.

Mr. TugboatT -

Try the Church of Apathists, Reformed. Nobody comes to meetings.

Tugboat, find me another religion that bans nonmembers from entire cities and then just maybe there's something that compares to the level of bigotry in Islam.

TugboatT, the article is not about "find me a religion that doesn't have a bad history" rather calling a Mountain the (actually just a hill) "Mountain of Mercy" when NO other religion is NOT only not allow to that "Mountain of Mercy" but not even allowed the ENTIRE city of Mecca. Is there any other city in the world (other than Medina) that allows only ONE Religion? Of course, I am not counting Athiest Despotism, which no religion was allowed such as the old USSR, Pol Pot's Cambodia or Mao's "Great Leap Forward". Please name another Religion that has an entire ONE or TWO cities which they ban ALL other Religions?

Guess I'm just not sure what everybody's beef is about being banned from a city. That's how the religion is. That's something you just have to deal with. By the same logic everyone should be complaining that they can't go into areas of the Vatican restricted to cardinals and the Pope, or whining that they can't go into Mormon temples.

But changing the mind of the ignorant is no easy feat.

Restrictions to Mosques, Churches, Temples is one thing as it is an ACTUAL Religious building. Restriction of an entire cities (two of them, Medina and Mecca) of ALL other Religons shows the lack of faith of their religion due to their lack of confidence of their own religion. Tugboat, it is a "Beef" (well, no pork) being banned from a city even when one's ancestors were from that city but happen to be of another city.

Sounds to me like you have some personal issues then. I understand. I'll leave you to wallowing in hate and despair.

Tugboat, Travel & live in the Middle East, then you will REALLY understand.

Kurt - I have not seen restrictions to churches or temples, I have been to both many times. But mosque is another story. In Iran I went to a few only because they thought I was a muslim. Others can be attacked and hurt.

"Kurt - I have not seen restrictions to churches or temples" uhm, I guess you could be correct in the sense since NO churches NOR Temples are even allowed nor be built in the entire country of SA, one can not place "restrictions" on something that does not exist. Although, I have not been to Iran as you have, I am sure you are aware the penalties against one who happens on their own free will to convert from Moslim to another religion & publicly found out, many are imprision for doing just that. And you are also should be aware how difficult to get a NEW church or temple built in Iran

Why limit your post to Muslims? This would be a good start for folks of all stripes.

Tomf, you are correct, but to clarify, Christian are physically allowed in SA (me being one of them) but rather NO Christian Churches nor Christian Religous Services are allowed (except a limited private gathering within certain Company Run Camps). However if you are speaking of within the cities of Mecca and Medina, No non-Moslems are allowed or for a Saudi Citizen to be of any OTHER Religion (legal wise), then you are absolutely correct without clarification.

Your religion seems to suggest that all other religions are false. If you are a man of science and logic, consider how science divorced from a sense of the sacred has allowed us to pillage our planet and deplete its resources to exhaustion. When judging spiritual traditions, don't toss out the baby with the bathwater.

Not very wise, a "Hydrogen bomb attack on Mecca and/or Medina by Isreal" would be very foolish of Isreal as those Hydrogen bomb "side effects" would easily spread outside the region to areas such as Isreal. A map would easily explain this.

Send in the clowns...don't bother, they're here.

Fan of holy wars, are you?

jesus is coming

in your mouth

Hate to disappoint you, Alan, but these guys pray to the same god you do. And also believe Jesus will return to fight evil.

I agree with the sentiments of your email, but you can't expect SA to take responsibility for all of the surrounding countries. The US has a country to the south of them that's run by corrupt governments, police, and drug cartels - are all Americans expected to push Mexico towards a more "modern" system? True: it would be in everyone's best interest if it were possible - but it's not likely to happen any time soon...

Plus: the idea that all muslims are one big homogeneous family is flawed. Look at the difference between SA and Iran, for example. Both are Muslim countries, but have completely different languages, cultures, and interpretations of their religious beliefs.

I agree 100% on not buying their oil - but not sure what the impact would be with Europe and China buying it instead. Not EXPORTING North American oil would be worth discussing, too - but not likely to happen any time soon.