You took the words right out of my mouth while looking for the comments. Hahahaha might as well hop out and start chopping. They are right on shore hhahahahaha

My bet is China spoofed the GPS. The Iranians did it with the drone they landed intact. Where would the technology come from? China. The Spratleys are disputed territory, and the Chinese have been installing outposts there with some pretty heavy signals gear recently. Panganiban reef is the site for one outpost, but there are many under construction. Kagitingan Reef is its main command headquarters as it is equipped with satellite data transmission, surface and air search radars, room for 200 Chinese Marines, docks, helicopter pads, and can re-supply naval vessels. It is also heavily defended from surface and air attack.

Elwood, the Chinese actions are why that mindsweeper is in the Philippines in the first place! I was at the Manila Ocean Park on Thanksgiving night and I saw a small naval ship docked right next to it. It was too dark to see what country the ship was from but, my guess will be it was a U.S. Navy vessel. There were several "Goodwill visits" by U.S. Naval vessels to the Philippines last year including 2 nuclear attack subs. Expect to see a lot more U.S. Navy vessels in Philippine waters as long as China continues to bully its neighbors and planting little Chinese flags all over the bottom of the West Philippine Sea (formerly known as the South China Sea). In fact, I would bet money the U.S. Navy and Air Force will have bases in the Philippines again within 5 years. We are just waiting for President Aquino to invite us back.

As the Asian economy grows so will an American presence. We have an interest in open sea lanes for commercial traffic. It isn't just China it is Japan also. Remember what Japan did in the 30's and 40's? We don't want to wait and have to go back island by island again. China is still suffering from Japan's aggression and wants it lands back.

US Navy - I hope one more mine sweeper is in the budget, it looks like this one is gone. Also destruction of reefs isn't cheap.

Looks like "Carnival Cruise" will be getting a new captain!!

Just a slight technicality Boatswains Mate. Pretty obvious that someone will be finding a new job. Relying on electronic charts alone is foolish at best. I learned that a long time ago. Funny that we are not seeing any salvage and rescue vessels around yet.

Prehaps a typhoon will soon roll through the area and the wind waves will set the ship free, however; it's more likely that this ship is going to become a pernament addition to the reef.

Why don't we get a large ship with cables and pull it off the reef?

Did this happen at night in a storm, in the pitch black, fog, in broad daylight etc? Either way her captians career is probably toast!

JK-4363698

Why don't we get a large ship with cables and pull it off the reef?

And just watch it sink, they have to pump all the fuel, oil and other pollutant's off, remove all ordinance then they can work on the salvage. They also need to do it with minimal additional damage to the reef.

There's a reason for a grounded navy ship. You are just a knee jerk reaction to the event. 19.5 degrees

"In a related report, the Captain of the grounded U.S. Naval ship has contacted and is seeking the advise of his old college room mate Captain Schettino, of the Contra Cordia"

The navigator was apparently using Apple's mapping software for the IPhone........

I used to SCUBA dive Tubataha when I was in the Air Force serving at Clark AB. Great dive spot. 25 miles out to sea, the reef is submerged just below the ocean surface. In a dive boat only drawing about 5' of water, you have to be really careful when you approach the reef or you will ground. There's a channel that you can actually enter from one side to get inside the reef.

Hate to see this happen. It's pristine diving there. But who knows. Might be really good wreck diving there soon.

Oh Buoy! Here we go again! I'm sure he radio'd the reef and told it to change course!

So why hasn't a couple tugs dragged it OFF THE REEF?

im sure the captian is looking for a new job

US Navy has issued a statement that incorrect maps were used. Ship went where it thought there was ocean, not land. Heads are still gonna roll, but it doesn't appear at this point that the captain was asleep at the wheel, or anyone else....here's a thought. Wait for the facts.

Don't worry...USS MINNOW ON THE WAY.......Mike nelson on board...no problem.....

John, in the 1800's sailors avoided that reef looking at stars. What facts are we missing? Typical idiot government employee.

Maybe they were using apple maps

so then its a sitting target that the whole world can see, thanx media!!

You are so right and they all have 2 legs 2 arms get out and start chopping away! hahahaha

A minesweeper is actually a relatively small ship to Navy standards and GPS, google earth, and sat mapping does not determine depth, especially with reef's that are a growing organism and what was passable years ago clearly is no longer. They were clearly using other map data and did not have deck crews out on watch as there should have been. Nevertheless, either the Navy was doing something in that reef or the skipper (a Lt Cmdr or Major to a more familiar rank) looked in the mirror right after the grounding and starting to think of a new career because his service in the Navy just came to an end. More info to come I am sure.

Im sure this Captain knows he will be walking the plank as he will be Passed Over and that will be the end of his Navy Carreer. It's a tough job beng Captain of a Ship whether it's Navy, Merchant Marines or a dam cruise Ship. When something like this happens and makes World News it's all over for the Captain. At least he wasn't Captian of that Italian crusie Ship. His name is Francisco Schettino and unlike this Navy captain who might have beed duped by a chinese GPS, he wasn't chasing everything in panties around the ship when he got stuck!

And, the MCM class hulls are made of fiberglass over wood. That reef is gonna tear them a new one.

I'm going to bet the captain is having a few drinks to toast the end of his Navy career.

@Goldenrook, as you said, it's a MINESWEEPER. It can find mines, but not a huge reef?

Yo yo....it DID find the reef. Thats the problem, lol

So we depend on sophisticated computer-based technologies for navigation, but the maps can still be wrong? Well that's just peachy. Run onto the reef while staring into a computer screen.

Absolutely the maps can be wrong.

I remember years ago, when vehicle navigation was still a budding industry, we would develop software for the navigation systems. To do that, we had to rely on digital maps supplied by the major map companies. It was quite common to find errors in maps, some of which could get people killed.

For example, one error that occurred far too often was failure to separate grades. I.e., an overpass was wrongly digitized such that it looked (in the map) like it was a simple intersection. Trouble is, if you turned at the "intersection", you would end up dropping the 40 or so feet to the roadway below.

There are still errors in the maps. That's why the navigation systems tell you "it is not a substitute for attentive driving."

Accident happened at night.... you will not see that reef in the dark.

Sleep well America.....the Obama Navy is watching over you tonight.

Indeed John, dabble, and redblue. The map was off by 8 nautical miles. For those of you that say why didn't they see the reef: it happened at 2am in the morning. Unless the full moon was out and clear, they can't see @!$%#!

As someone who spent years on the open ocean relying on charts and graphs and electronics to lead the way in the dark of night and heavy weather and even during the broad light of day I can attest to the fact that none of them are 100 percent effective and your only real defense against a grounding like that is having enough experience steaming in and out of that particular area to know it well enough to dead reckon through the obstacles! Plus reefs grow and diminish year after year... an out cropping could have well built up that might have not been there the last time they steamed through there. Plus if that photo is an accurate representation of their basic position when they ran aground despite having moved some...they didn't run that far off course. You can plainly see the ledge in that picture and deep navigatable water is right there! I can tell you for a fact that if you cut it that close..either because of instrument failure or misreading a chart..all it takes is one big sea to lift you up there no matter the size of the vessel. I wouldn't go screaming foul and fire yet..until all the facts are in.

Exactly!

"While the erroneous navigation chart data is important information, no one should jump to conclusions," U.S. Pacific Fleet spokesman Capt. Darryn James was quoted as saying in the statement. "It is critical that the U.S. Navy conduct a comprehensive investigation that assesses all the facts surrounding the Guardian grounding."

Zman- Did Faux News tell you Obama was at the helm? I'm not sure I'd be surprised.

Knowing todays young persons, the captain was probably playing angry birds on the navigation computer and when the ship hit the reef found out that the navigation computer wasn't multi-tasking.

ok . . . . don't tell me no one out there is using perfect GPS cause guess what? it don't exist. my techno smart stepson got pissed at his state of art GPS when on a trip at christmas the Krystals resturant disappeared and it kept telling us his Moms place was two more streets up on the right no matter which direction we came from. Computers are never wrong but that doesn't mean the info is always right!!!

Jim G.-2904749: If something good had happened, Obama would have claimed to have been at the helm. Just like the faux (Not Fox) credit for killing Osama bin Laden. I guess from the reference to Fox News, the left is still going into anaphylactic shock anytime the news is reported objectively or accurately.

THAT was the best chuckle I've had all evening! Cheers!

That was funny!

I am sure they are flying three balls from the mast. The CO's, XO's and the navigator's.

That ship was built in the late 80's.....get you facts straight

I was a radar tech in the Navy for 6 years aboard a carrier and surface radar should of picked this up in my opinion we can see oil slicks with them and other contacts. On a carrier we also have some echo location options but it has to be deployed it was not automatic in use at least when i was serving. I would be shocked to know they didn't have a marine based radar on board either. I think there is probably more to the story than we are told or know. Just my 2 cents.

All they need to do ahhaahhahaah bring some metal and start chipping away.

STFU. Bet you never served a day in your life. I have kept more pieces of equipment serviceable longer than the years they were actually useful.

@Dan, your idea of a Google maps solution is laughable, no offense but they use the maps that are provided by mapping and in some cases declassified military agencies for anything outside of normal geographic borders. Google has no boats to map the ocean and or reefs. They map streets by vehicle and in terrain not reachable by roads etc they rely on aerial combing in planes. You will find a large majority of the mapping is not done by Google at all.

How Google builds maps

w w w.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/how-google-builds-its-maps-and-what-it-means-for-the-future-of-everything/261913/

@ Amy-361 That's funny, my ship ran aground going into Bahrain after a stop at the fueling ports out in the channel. Yep, skipper relieved then also, we stayed in Bahrain for a new prop which was flown in and changed in port. Our POS was a one shaft, one prop, DIW work of art.

I remember carrying a 45,000lb brass prop in a C-5 over to Bahrain in the 90s! That thing barely fit in the cargo hold!

My ship was the USS CAPE COD; same for you?

Problem is the technology is only as smart as the person using it. One slip-up and you get...well, a minesweeper stuck on a reef. That's why they're constantly running drills. Problem is we never hear about when things go well. We only hear about when something happens. Like, say, a boat, let's say a minesweeper, hitting something. For example, a reef. Just hypothetically.

Yeah sure. Although, in this one case, all they had to do was to take a look down the right side of the ship. I am sure they will have to work a lot to make that military arrogance shine pretty again..

Just wait for a high tide...but better be awake when it hits, or it will push the ship farther on the reef

What? Did you bother to do ANY reading at all? It happened at 02:25 am. How the hell would looking over the side help? However, I do have to wonder if they were using sonar scans and if so why it wasn't detected.

That would certainly be the perfect excuse..."It was late at night and we were all asleep.."

At any time of the day, sailors have to keep an eye out for their ship. Someone has to be on the look out watching live or at a screen. Apparently no one pisses off the side of a ship no more...and the one watching the controls fell asleep and pissed in his kakis

hey Thomas Davis, they Captain of any ship is always responsible for anything that goes on, good or bad. This a case of ormosis, or the laws governing the attraction of two solid objects, in this case the reef and the ship. This is simply a case of not keeping a proper watch and poor navigation skills. there is no excuse. when one commands a vessel (any vessel) it is incumbent for the Captain to be aware of any and all anomalies whether real or perceived, both at present and in the future. Somebody was not paying attention and the Captain is ultimately liable, (Costa Concordia the second)

If you don't know the reef is there until you can see it over the side, it's way too late to react.

I'm amazed at how many armchair quarterbacks on here. I'll bet half of you never ran a runabout in a lake much less a ship in the ocean, but you all "know" what happened and feel free to criticize. It makes you all look like blithering idiots.

Yes, cacique, I'm speaking to you. "Look down the side"??? Really? In the middle of the night with the reef apparently ahead of you? Think.

Thomas Davis, you're one of the few here with any sense at all. On behalf of my middle son the Sailor (for all you know-it-alls out there, that means he's in the US Navy) Thank you.

Italians been sailing the sea before the U.S. even existed,

Yes, we know the Italians 'discovered' America, and we also know they were COMPLETELY lost when it happened. The question is: did they actually 'land' here-or did they just run aground?

Yet some of those Italians navigators still manage to trip a full cruiser on its side right at port and jump ship even before the passangers!! bonitos culitos those you stick your pretty neck for...

She was referring to the Costa ship that ran aground last year you stupid WOP! Go ahead and trash the US all you want, we know the truth. Without the US you would be a skid mark on Germanys undies. Oh wait, you already are. Does that sting? Stupid WOP! HAHA!

Do you know what the word "Stugots" means?

Re: ItalianStugots

There are quite a few myths in the world. Unicorns, Aliens, Bigfoot, Atlantis, Honest Italians...

Re: Ktmpilot

America does not need to be defended by someone who thinks a penal colony is an all male nudist camp. This is why incest is illegal people.

Yes, we know the Italians 'discovered' America, and we also know they were COMPLETELY lost when it happened.

@JimG ... Jealous much? Christoforo Columbo wasn't lost. His western passage to the East was interrupted by a previously unknown landmass located on the *intended* path. His longitudinal distance calculations made before the trip were off (based in part to distances expressed differently by Arabs and Romans), but his over-water navigations on the easterly trade winds put him exactly on his intended line. After you finish researching Columbo, move on to Polo and Caboto.

@ForTheGander ... There are quite a few myths ...

Uncalled for.

ktmpilot = ignorant redneck trash

Hold the phone- I wasn't blaming it on the Italians, and now that I read my post it was pretty rude.

I was making fun the of the Italian Captain we are all familiar with- and I love Italy and had some formal education there, so I do apologize.

I'll assume your nastiness was a knee-jerk reaction- we are not blaming anyone but the person guiding the freaking boat- on the positive side, our guy didn't run like a little girl and let people die.

correct me if im wrong that is also a world heritage sea preserve and as far as i understand you are not alowed to us sonar due to the damage it does to the wildlife there so if you cant use sonar and your charts are f#$#$ up you end up fubar just like they are now you are just a child of fate it could be any one sitting there lets all sit back and see the true reason not making half informed insulting remarks of people we do not know or how they do their job we were not there so to make asumsions it is childish at best

You may be right about that. I know there are designated "sonar free" zones but I don't know if that area is one. It will be interesting to see whether or not that is the case when more info becomes available.

Just wanted to say I have a hell of alot more sea time than you. and this is on the captain and the officer of the deck, Not on any chart or electronics first of all you do not take your navigation from one source so the bad chart is out. I was their when the barbour county (lsd) went aground off north island and it was the captian that paid the price as it should be. The navigator is also responsible should have kept a wide berth especially at night, but the final report will probably read that a watchstander was the one who created the situation . The bottom line is the captain will no longer be in the navy come the completion of this investigation. I was also on the new orleans (lph=11when they locked priflies with the denver lpd-9 what a disgrace we had the families on board coming back from westpac. oh yea and charts do give you depth of the water I don't think a reef can grow that tall to where the water level you want to be sailing in.

What happen to a chart and a compass. satnav and shooting stars?

Navy that is!

WTF? Name ONE case in all of Maritime history where a head of state (especially a U.S. president) was called to help when a ship ran aground.. Sure, they get the call to be informed that it happened but never to help. It's the Navy's job to deal with this and they will. No matter the fault someone will be held accountable. And why the hell does everything devolve into a political argument? Whats the point and what is a "nave"?

"Get the damn boat off the reef !"

Gee. I'll bet they didn't think of that before you told them to.

On the other hand, if the president did get involved in this salvage operation, you would be saying

"What does a Harvard lawyer know about ship rescue? Stay out of the way and let the experts handle it'.

BHO can't get involved, he still has another week of inauguration festivities before going on vacation again!

You're an idiot.

Or they can disembark much of the stuff to lighten up the ship, then wait for a full moon for the tide to rise a couple of feet. The ship will free itslef...I think.

Or we can blame the president as you suggest.

Not trying to be a wiseacre but its been grounded since the 17th. Surely there has been a high tide since then and the crew has already been removed. Instead of being released it seems the changing tides have pushed it further onto the reef. Several compartments are flooded but the latest reports are saying its no longer taking on water.

Today is the 20th still, in a few more days we will have a full moon and more of a higher tide...They will have their chance then. During these few days they have time to free the ship of unnecessary weight to gain more flotation and wait for the water rise to do its job...I know that @!$%# happens, but any US sailor crew worth its salt has to be able to free his/her ship no matter what, and onto its merry way.

Bargeman,

If you don't like this Country, its President and our Servicemen and Servicewomen...get the hell out!!! I can almost guess you are on one of our entitlement systems. If you are a "worker" I am guessing you screw up quite frequently. But, I can guarantee you do not participate in our voting system because your vote "does not count". Either way you sure are a judgemental bas%&!@) What a total idiot. Get off MY dollar little buddy, you're past your prime and we're cutting your time. Get to work and quit whining about someone else's concerns. I give my tax money to the government and the military for a fine job, even if there are errors, I know they were trained by the best and do a terrific job. As far as our President...if a SUCCESSFUL millionaire (Warren Buffet) can agree that we are doing well in the U.S. even with the deficit, it reassures me that we are okay. It is life sucking people like you that increase our woes both mentally and financially!!!

Oops forgot a t on Buffett sorry Mr. Buffett!